Earlier quoted context omitted.
She was at the BSL4 lab. This is different than the BSL2 lab that was speculated to have leaked covid.
Aren't they included in each other like a matrioshka doll?
Doubt it. I'm curious where the BSL-2 actually was.
The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
201–210 of 267 posts
Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
#202The problem with this whole article is that we know of no suitable backbone virus to use, and we know of no suitable spike-protein sequence to form a chimera which results in SARS-CoV-2. The experiments done on the SARS-CoV-1 or WIV1 backbone don't remotely get you close to SARS-CoV-2 and you're dealing with centuries of evolutionary difference there. The RaTG13 virus backbone is also several decades of evolution awa…
If it was a lab leak it was probably a modification of a natural bat virus that has not been published yet. The published one RaTG13 is too different. Them having unpublished viruses is pretty likely. Either knowingly or as Baric says maybe just getting bat shit on the culture cells containing a virus they weren't aware of.
You could probably check this by going to the bat caves and taking samples which is probably why they pretty much mobilised the military to block the road when some western reporters tried going there.
If the west could every get independent investigators to the Mojang mine I think there's a high chance we'd find the origin.
Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
> some sequences appear to have been deleted That is a completely unrelated issue. The sequences you're talking about are sequences from patients (obtained in February 2020, I believe). They are not bat coronavirus sequences, which is what the poster above you is referring to. The Wuhan Institute of Virology publishes the sequences it discovers. RaTG13, the closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2, was published in 2016,…
This is totally related to the Chinese hiding all the data they can related to the origins which suggests there may be a reason for the hiding. (some details - they even tried to hide the original sequence which our vaccines are based on. When a lab released it against orders they closed the lab. When Australia suggested an independent investigation they put 80bn of trade sanction on them. When a doctor at the start…
I feel this is like throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks:
> they even tried to hide the original sequence which our vaccines are based on.
By the accounts I've read, there was rivalry between the China CDC and researchers at different institutions to publish the genome first, not to hide it. The China CDC was taking longer to validate the genetic sequence and write up a publication, and they didn't want to be scooped. But regardless of the delay this caused, the genome was published extraordinarily quickly - less than two weeks after the first patient test results even suggested that there might be a new virus.
Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've made up my mind to discount the lab escape hypotesis as it's likely to generate more yellow journalism and controversy fueling the "news cycle", conspiracy theories and finger pointing. I guess we'll find the truth in another five or more years.
Wouldnt it be better to try to focus on what the truth might be regardless of ideological constraints?
As far as I'm concerned this is the truth until there's enough evidence to support a different theory:
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-...
Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
#205This is starting to look quite plausible as the origin of the pandemic, including stuff like:
>Let’s face it: there are going to be unknown viruses in guano, or oral swabs, which are oftentimes pooled. And if you’re attempting to culture a virus, you’re going to have novel strains being dropped onto culture cells,”
So it could have come from the lab without them even knowing. The way to check would probably be to get inspectors to the caves where the guano came from, which annoyingly I doubt the Chinese will ever allow.
Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
#206Much of the article reminds me of the description of how NASA ended up launching a shuttle in temperatures far below what they originally would have allowed. You walk just past the line, nothing bad happens, so you move the line a bit. You walk just past that line, nothing bad happens...and this repeats until, inevitably, eventually, something bad happens. Regardless of whether or not this pandemic came from this lab…
It's easy enough to apply outside audits to something like Space Shuttle development, where the goals are not secret and it's pretty well understood what you are trying to accomplish and what your capabilities are. It's a very different situation when it comes to bioweapons research -- how do you let outside auditors into Fort Detrick without running the risk of giving some game away?
While it is certainly true that outside auditors (with enforcement authority) would never be allowed into a bioweapons lab of either China or the USA, it also doesn't really seem to be the case that the virology lab in Wuhan was a bioweapons lab. Most labs doing this kind of research are not bioweapons labs. Moreover, due to the national security implications, bioweapons labs tend at least to have good security about letting stuff out, if for the wrong reasons. If we had outside auditing of all non-bioweapons labs doing this kind of research, it would still greatly reduce the collective risk, if only because that would be most of the labs.
Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think part of the quest is about deciding if gain-of-function research is safe and should be allowed in the future. If it happens to be the root cause, no doubt there will be a huge change in how it is carried out, if not outright banned. If it is proven to not be the cause, it will be easier to argue that it can be safe.
To be honest, I never really bought into the lab escape theory. Still really don't, with all the investigations going on I am willing to consider it as an alternative. Thing is, I have yet to see a timeline, starting with the earliest cases elsewhere, and a summary of the genetic research into COVID-19. Without having the time, and knowledge, to deep dive into the studies I jave to rely on news reports. And those, IM…
> with all the investigations going on
There are no investigations going on. What the F are you talking about? The communist dictatorship is not letting in any investigators. They have every incentive to prevent any investigation, and they do so.
Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you know 2? It is documented that the Chinese deleted sequences from a global database. Also how naive can we be thinking they have given WHO access to all the research? They didn't. So remove argument 2.
> It is documented that the Chinese deleted sequences from a global database. You're referring to something completely different, which has nothing to do with bat coronavirus research or the Wuhan Institute of Virology. A group of researchers working on new sequencing techniques for patient samples (not bat coronaviruses) withdrew their raw data from a database. They then published the key data in a peer-reviewed jou…
I think you are not familiar with
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01731-3
And you are talking about something else.
Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
#209This is the best written article up to now in my opinion. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-ori...
An AMP link? You've been on here long enough to know better :^)
Re: The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is totally related to the Chinese hiding all the data they can related to the origins which suggests there may be a reason for the hiding. (some details - they even tried to hide the original sequence which our vaccines are based on. When a lab released it against orders they closed the lab. When Australia suggested an independent investigation they put 80bn of trade sanction on them. When a doctor at the start…
I feel this is like throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks: > they even tried to hide the original sequence which our vaccines are based on. By the accounts I've read, there was rivalry between the China CDC and researchers at different institutions to publish the genome first , not to hide it. The China CDC was taking longer to validate the genetic sequence and write up a publication, and they didn't want to…
Ok - googling the story on the original sequence seems to have changed. The original reporting https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3052966/chin... suggested a cover up but a more recent interview with the guy suggests not https://time.com/5882918/zhang-yongzhen-interview-china-coro...