Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 310 posts

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#241

Post by zaroth »

I work closely with someone who runs one of these Amazon DSPs.

He has 70 employees who love working there. In the last 6 months he has had only 2 people leave, and one due to their family moving.

He has a military background and he protects his people like they are his own unit. He deals with all the shit that Amazon throws down at him and builds his own processes and procedures to deal with things like day-to-day route variability.

The drivers work 10 hours a day 4 days a week. He will go in every morning and tweak the routes that the AI designs so that they can finish their 10 hour route in 8 hours, he still pays them for the full 10. Sometimes they will get done in 6 hours and run another route and make 2.5x their wage on the day.

He says the internal Amazon dashboards that track his company performance break due to his numbers. And everyone is making very, very good money with full benefits.

I’ve seen the numbers and anyone losing money running one of these shops is just doing a very poor job hiring, training, and managing the process.

I scoffed a year ago when he told me he was leaving his job to go do this. Since then I’ve eaten my words.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#242

Post by toast0 »

wtf_is_up wrote: post #47
zouhair wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And throw packages like they don't care, as they should.

How is destroying other people's stuff a reasonable response for you being disgruntled at your employer?

If amazon would learn how to pack things, maybe stuff wouldn't get destroyed when boxes are tossed.

I've seen so many packages where the box is two sizes too big, and then a smattering of air pillows is added, leaving most of the space empty.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#243

Post by GavinMcG »

RHSeeger wrote: post #234
GavinMcG wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about being disgruntled, it's about not wanting your family to go hungry because you were only able to deliver three hundred packages in ten hours by taking extra care. There's a difference between destroying someone's stuff because you hate your job and just not caring about someone's stuff because you want your job.

That exact same argument would hold true for drug dealers, mob enforcers, and a whole variety of people that do bad things. Sure, the mob boss is a bad guy for having the enforcer break someone's shop up; but the enforcer is _also_ a bad guy for doing it.

I'm not sure why people keep equating carelessness with actual malice.

Yes, obviously both the boss and the enforcer are bad for doing harmful things with an evil mind. That's just not the same as apathy.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#244

Post by zaroth »

nonfamous wrote: post #3

> [contract delivery companies] have to adhere to a strict set of rules from Amazon around hiring, pay, delivery times and routes, and more. The only one of these that Amazon has any right to dictate is delivery times (and what they will pay for that delivery). The fact that Amazon has direct control over the contractor’s worker’s pay, and even the ability to fire those workers, is very shocking to me. Remember, this…

The drivers are W2 employees who work for the delivery companies. The delivery companies pay hourly plus benefits. Amazon’s contract is with the delivery company.

This isn’t a gig economy thing and there are no contractors / 1099.

Two businesses can put whatever contract provisions into their agreement that they want to as long as laws aren’t being broken.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#245

Post by redleggedfrog »

ckdarby wrote: post #15
redleggedfrog wrote: post #8

Vote with your dollars folks. I'm 5 years in to an Amazon boycott and hardly even notice really.

What are you using that is even close to the same, offers a similar return guarantees and contactless due to covid?

Sorry, not being cheeky, but: https://www.google.com/search?q=alternatives+to+amazon

I don't need a lot of things, and I just buy local, or for tech, sometimes Newegg, or again, a local outfit. Hit up Costco once a month, too.

At first it was a conscious choice not to use Amazon, but later it just kind of doesn't matter anymore. If they didn't exist, it wouldn't matter to me.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#246

Post by clipradiowallet »

HighInquisitor wrote: post #115
D13Fd wrote: post #41

This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. As more and more people figure it out, other delivery companies will stop working with Amazon as well, although it may be that the deals work out better in places with lower cost-of-living, easier delivery routes (due to climate, geography, etc.), or other advantages. If some othe…

I struggle to grasp how this kind of libertarian vision of the world can possibly be maintained by anyone who actually observes how the world works. No, markets don't self-regulate. Companies won't stop working with Amazon across the board, and those that do will be replaced by companies willing to work for less, because they're full of people willing to work for less. We know that's how this works. We know that peop…

The parent commenter here (HighInquisitor) has employed an impressive number of techniques from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27595043 - an article detailing propaganda techniques.

Examples:

> No, markets don't self-regulate

Black-and-white fallacy, with a mix of Artificial Dichotomy

> I struggle to grasp how this kind of libertarian vision of the world can possibly be maintained

Appeal to fear, with parts of Ad Hominem (libertarian used in a derogatory sense)

> Most people do not, in fact, feel the sense of righteous indignation needed to make such decisions

Bandawagon

> But the same libertarian-minded people who think the market self-regulates

Ad hominem and Appeal to prejudice

tldr; troll is trolling

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#247

Post by dfxm12 »

jmeister wrote: post #127
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of corporate gains have been at a cost of squeezing on labor resources in some form or another, either time, lower comp, higher productivity, etc. or some combination of these elements. There has been some innovation in general technology making improvements for labor but a lot is really just doing more, for less, and someone else pocketing the gains. You need look no further than AWS treatment of SEs in their…

> corporate gains What about customers? They seem to be happy to ignore how the sausage is made, to have stuff delivered to their doorsteps cheap and fast.

Amazon used to deliver stuff cheap and fast, but that hasn't been true for a little while now. I haven't been happy with Amazon's delivery service for a handful of years (well before the pandemic). Not only do they offer poor delivery service (stuff like throwing packages into an empty lot near my house that I have no access to, saying a package was delivered when it wasn't, not following the delivery instructions, consistently delivering after the estimated window, etc.), their customer service does nothing about this and has outright lied to me on the few occasions I was lucky enough to get a live person on the phone.

It's made me deprioritize Amazon when it comes to my online shopping.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#248

Post by robertlagrant »

tablespoon wrote: post #128
IncRnd wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which words in that statement are contemptuous?

> Which words in that statement are contemptuous? Not so much words, but the attitude it displays. It lies and stretches the truth to make it look like these companies are behaving irrationally and destructively and that Amazon is the good guy who cares. It shows contempt for those companies, and contempt for the listener (because they expect us to believe it)

How do you know that it's lies?

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#249

Post by clipradiowallet »

sjg007 wrote: post #164

I wonder if Amazon will start stores and do click to collect. Maybe the front half of a warehouse or something. Maybe you'd get some money for bringing your neighbors package back with you.

> Maybe you'd get some money for bringing your neighbors package back with you.

That's a pretty cool idea you had there!

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#250

Post by robertlagrant »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #105
criddell wrote: post #12

> "We refused their demands and they followed through with their threat, terminating their contract with us, leaving their employees confused and looking for answers," she continued. "We’re doing everything we can to support the affected employees including connecting them with other Delivery Service Partners in the area who are hiring.” I'd love for that PR person to drive the route one day and see if they can meet…

Why? She knows the capitalism rat-race as well as you do, its just in her paycheck's interest to say these things just like you do capitalistic contributions for your paycheck. I think the idea that you lead an ethical work life and she doesn't is a bit out there. There's a lot of "but but my capitalism contribution is the only ethical capitalist contribution" in this thread. You're just as guilty as her of that rega…

Can we stop saying "capitalism" as though it's some sort of root cause? Do you think workers in any society have had it easy?
Post reply on HN