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Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

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Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#161
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A problem I have heard female friends speculate about is with promoting women in higher positions. If the female population is too low, and you try to get them into higher positions, two effects occur according to this theory. First of all, with a low female population there probably aren't enough proven and qualified women to fill the desired number of slots. This leads to imposter syndrome / worry about people thin…

You assume that all applicants are of equal attainment, ability, and motivation. However, women have to fight an in-built discrimination. While men are more forced into work because our gender role expects it of us. Thus, women who are candidates for promotion are likely to be more motivated and more ambitious than their male counterparts - they've had to fight harder against more obstacles to get to that point. I se…

> I see this in the gender balance of programmers. Female programmers have had to fight against a constant discouragement from pretty much everyone in their lives, while male programmers have had nothing but encouragement.

As a male growing up in the 80ies and 90ies in Europe I must say this must be somewhere else.

If this was the case then there would be some merit to the idea of "male privilege".

From what I saw encouragement came in two forms:

- generally for everyone

- and in addition, specifically for girls

I.e. I've seen activities for "kids who code" or "girls who code" but never for "boys who code".

I also have some personal experience regarding encouragement: from I was a young boy and until I had almost finished my Bachelors degree I was more than once discouraged from IT and encouraged to get a "real job" so either I was very special or the idea that boys get "nothing but encouragement" is plain false

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#162
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does track orientation of employees. They have a breakdown of intersectional hiring in their 2019 report. It may be voluntarily reported. But the + doesn't stand for orientation. I don't see how being gay makes you any more or less of a racial identity https://kstatic.googleusercontent.com/files/93d9a4094693cb78...

According to this[0] people can self-identify as "Black+" so if it's purely racial how could people self-identify as that? 0. https://developers.google.com/learn/certificates

You either let somebody tell you their race, or you assign them one. Which one would you be more comfortable doing?

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Sure, there's some fringe backlash when some company supports a program that is targeted at underrepresented groups, but I think that's the way to create lasting change. It's not "fringe backlash". It's a recognition that success in the job market isn't determined by skill despite what's claimed but by quota. The companies partaking in these diversity and inclusion ventures however don't want to admit the full dept…

By fringe backlash, I meant to reference programs like "Girls who code", "Black Girls Code", internship programs for under-represented groups, and the like. I'm 100% supportive of these programs, while being opposed to quota-based hiring models.

An interesting effect is that railing against bootcamps in general is common and uncontroversial.

But railing against any of the bootcamps you named above would be career suicide.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#164
post #88

> some people from underrepresented backgrounds have said they continue to feel unwelcome in the tech industry, and they also remain high in demand elsewhere as companies compete to increase diversity. This is dangerous territory to comment on perhaps, but it seems like many policies which seek to boost individual company population ratios to be significantly higher than the comparable tech-industry ratios are prone…

True. Underrepresentation should be something addressed at a higher level. Anytime an organization treats one group of people differently it creates at least two problems: others in the organization resent the preferential treatment and more importantly the targeted group does not get proper credit for their accomplishments, since they and others feel like their accomplishments were due to the advantages conferred to…

> addressed at a higher level.

Odin?

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#165

I happen to be very familiar with Google's diversity efforts and have many Black and Latinx friends and acquaintances in the company. Google is one of the most racially inclusive tech companies in the world. It really tries hard to fix historical disparities between races in ways that you don't see in most companies, ranging from very active promotion of minorities to programs dedicated to hiring them. The interview…

I'm curious how the interview process at Google compares to other tech companies. I don't mean the text written afterwards but the actual interview process. My female friend interviewed at a number of large tech companies, not Google due to it's COVID hiring slowdown, and generally there was at least one interviewer that made comments I never, as a white man, have heard from an interviewer. Not outright sexist but th…

I imagine most interviewees hear things I've never heard during their interviews- interviews can be a very divergent experience based on company, personality, and experience.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#166

I happen to be very familiar with Google's diversity efforts and have many Black and Latinx friends and acquaintances in the company. Google is one of the most racially inclusive tech companies in the world. It really tries hard to fix historical disparities between races in ways that you don't see in most companies, ranging from very active promotion of minorities to programs dedicated to hiring them. The interview…

When I was an employee at Google and did interviews, I was told that for diversity reasons, I couldn't ask where an interviewee "was from" because that would bias my decision.

I'm sorry, but other companies and fields don't prevent this question, and have far less bias (well, employee distributions that more closely map to underlying population distributions) in hiring. Most of what Google is doing is to reduce its legal exposure to class action hiring lawsuits, not righting wrongs, as much as their leaders like to say they are.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#167

How incredibly weird is it to witness American schizophrenia* when it comes to races (and gender) from a non-american perspective. "Black+", "Latinx+", "LGBTTQQIAAP". Putting people in smaller and smaller box in the name of equality and diversity. I am the only one to feel this is coming to an absurd point ? I'm not an alt-right fan, nor would I vote Republican if I could, I'm a leftist in what's considered a traditi…

> * Oh boy was that ableist ?

It was hate speech against your neurodiverse colleagues. Doubleplus ungood.

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's recycled nazi propaganda: "Cultural Bolshevism (German: Kulturbolschewismus), sometimes referred to specifically as art Bolshevism, music Bolshevism or sexual Bolshevism, was a term widely used by Nazi German-sponsored critics to denounce modernist and progressive movements in the culture... Cultural Marxism is a contemporary variant of the term which is used to refer to the far-right antisemitic Cultural Marxis…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[flagged]

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#169
The stats I want to see are “average days to first promotion” and average tenure for male/female groups and also grouped by minorities. Tech companies love to point out how they have “equal pay for equal work” (which I believe, this is easy to audit by having salary bands per level) but what about “equal career advancement for equal work”? If members of a minority group take say 25% more days on average to get promoted what is that evidence of?

Re: Google reports soaring attrition among Black women

#170

Unpopular opinion… Could it be that women (in general) want something more in life than working in a big company for a nice wage? Study after study after study show that women want families and other things other than the standard mega corporation employment that society has trained us to expect. I’d bet if one looked at the numbers one would see that women as a whole are leaving google and other companies just as mu…

Google infamously fired a male engineer for speculating on such things. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google's_Ideological_Echo_Ch...

The message is clear then, avoid all conversations about this very topic at your work place and let the chips fall where they may.
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