Live data from Hacker News

State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

ntdotdev.wordpress.com

331–335 of 335 posts

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost is not the same as value. Apple hardware routinely runs better, lasts longer, and has longer software support. This is reflected in the incredible demand and higher resale values. This actually helps makes new devices more affordable as the cost is amortized over a longer and more useful lifespan, while the secondary market serves others very well.

Incredible demand? Are you referring to their stable ~15% market share? And decades of uninspiring market performances? The company which didn't experience its meteoric success and growth until after the computer, with the smartphone? Interesting. I figured the people here are completely ignoring maybe half of all users, but you seem to be ignoring about 85%!

Billions of people only have a (cheap Android) smartphone as their only computing device, if that. They're not buying consoles, computers and TVs.

So given your example which already excludes most people on the planet, I was replying to the fact that Apple hardware usually has a lower total-cost-of-ownership given the longevity and resale value. Of course not everyone sees it this way, nor can they afford the upfront price, but it is what it is. Anyway, the company certainly didn't get to a $2T market cap from a lack of demand.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI and logic are probably not as decoupled as we’d like to think.

So decouple them. Microsoft has annual revenue of $143 billion . Their flagship product should not be a neglected mess.

I don't think it'd right to consider it their flagship product anymore. At least not if we look at what makes them money.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#333
post #45
post #36

Disclaimer: I work at Microsoft, but not on Windows (and I deal with a SaaS at MSFT). I am a FreeBSD committer and help maintain FreeBSD's GNOME packages and (very recently) the graphics drivers. The reason why Windows is full of UI inconsistencies is (largely) because of one thing: backwards compatibility. While backwards compatibility has it's perks, it also means having lots of old code in Windows that can't be to…

I work on the core OS. This is the answer. Now it could be done to maintain backwards compat and have everything completely up to date, but the juice is not worth the squeeze and there are more important things to focus on (such as making the OS work/build in such a way that there won’t be inconsistencies in the future).

Honestly thank goodness for the backwards compatibility, otherwise I'd have to rewrite an existing legacy app I've been put in charge of maintaining at my place of work. The thing is in winforms and a weird third party UI library built with winforms as well. It would just be a nightmare for me to have to go through each screen to recreate it reliably.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking the obvious question: why aren't the UIs in newer Windows versions not "just" different themes over Win32 widgets? Instead the UI theme seems to be tied to UI frameworks which seem to be created and discarded annually at Microsoft, so each time some genius decides to overhaul the UI, a completely new sediment layer is created instead of letting some UI designers tinker with a theme editor. I don't get it. Func…

I guess one challenge with this is that old school Win32 doesn't really support anything resembling automatic / responsive layout. All controls are of a fixed size in a fixed pixel location. This means you can't for example change the default font, add margin or padding or do any other significant changes without essentially breaking all existing applications.

That's not quite true. Win32 apps that use CreateDialog use absolute positioning for widgets, but the "dialog units" used for that purpose are specifically defined to scale with DPI and font size (one DU is defined as "average width and height of characters in the system font").
Post reply on HN