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State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

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Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#31

Post by aasasd »

dstaley wrote: post #8

I honestly don't envy Microsoft. On one hand, you have the people who don't want Microsoft to break backwards compatibility. They want Microsoft to retain the ability to run programs written a quarter of a century[1] ago. This is why all this legacy stuff sticks around in Windows. Then, you have those who want Microsoft to radically reinvent Windows, either by embracing WinUI 3 fully (what most people mean when they…

> retain the ability to run programs written a quarter of a decade ago

I think I've seen computers with more uninterrupted uptime than that, even if servers. Or at least approaching this figure.

Perhaps you meant ‘quarter of a millennium’ or something like that.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#32

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

curiousmindz wrote: post #14

This issue is way overblown here on HN. In day-to-day usage, I have rarely been annoyed by these "inconsistencies". The best example to illustrate this article is: Installing a driver with the Windows XP layer. That's probably something that will only happen to people installing very old hardware with drivers from over 10 years ago. I consider that a backward compatibility win: It is great that it even works in Windo…

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, people bash Linux distros for inconsistent UIs so I get a kick out of pointing out that the shoe is on the other foot.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#33

Post by cryptoz »

elktea wrote: post #12

speaking of UI inconsistencies - why did the author of this page thing it was a good idea to hijack my page up/down buttons. come on man.

I really disliked the experience of trying to read that page so much I just chose not to read it. What a surprisingly awful experience - I'd really encourage the author to remove that.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#34

Post by can16358p »

siproprio wrote: post #23
dstaley wrote: post #8

I honestly don't envy Microsoft. On one hand, you have the people who don't want Microsoft to break backwards compatibility. They want Microsoft to retain the ability to run programs written a quarter of a century[1] ago. This is why all this legacy stuff sticks around in Windows. Then, you have those who want Microsoft to radically reinvent Windows, either by embracing WinUI 3 fully (what most people mean when they…

What about me? I don't care about backwards compatibility - but I don't want "UWP" because it's impossible to make great apps following the guidelines.

I'm on the same boat, and would like to see proper design instead of supporting 200-years-old programs. But apparently we are minority and not the best interest of Microsoft. (Which is okay, BTW)

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#35

Post by [deleted] »

cutchin wrote: post #7

I've been primarily a linux user for some time, so I've gotten pretty desensitized to various applications looking vastly different on the same system. But in the last several years that's mostly gone away - Gnome knows how to change the theme for QT apps and KDE can configure GTK themes so things are actually remarkably uniform. But then when I fire up Windows, it is just this bizarre mix of all these different UI f…

[deleted]

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#36

Post by neelc »

Disclaimer: I work at Microsoft, but not on Windows (and I deal with a SaaS at MSFT). I am a FreeBSD committer and help maintain FreeBSD's GNOME packages and (very recently) the graphics drivers.

The reason why Windows is full of UI inconsistencies is (largely) because of one thing: backwards compatibility.

While backwards compatibility has it's perks, it also means having lots of old code in Windows that can't be touched very easily without breaking compatibility, And that means many old UI elements may stay, that's a side effect.

While desktop Linux/BSD isn't exactly well known for it's UIs, I found GNOME 3/40 to be more consistent UI-wise than Windows 10, being a user of GNOME 3 on FreeBSD at home (which I am typing this comment from), and helping port GNOME 40, while (unsurprisingly) using Windows 10 at $DAYJOB.

But then GNOME, KDE, Apple, et al. is more willing to break things than Windows is. They aren't as bound to legacy compatibility, so old UI elements can be shed easily.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#37

Post by api »

akersten wrote: post #6

I like the Run dialog and the folder properties menu and others that have been untouched since the early days. Their utility has been proven and so much muscle memory has been built up. I can not possibly imagine a revision that could be done to them that would have more benefits than simply leaving them be. All of the Fluent/Metro designs have made things markedly worse. For example, check out the Metro control pane…

Why has there been such a push to nerf UIs? Is it just trying to ape mobile? Mobile UIs are more basic because the screen is so damn small and the use case is more casual.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#38

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

Seems like there used to more open criticism and suggested improvements of Microsoft Windows on the internet/web. When the company bought out Mark Russinovich that quelled some of it. There was also a website called annoyances.org. Anyone know why it disappeared. This is the last record of it I could find in the Internet Archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121222074911/http://www.annoya...

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#39

Post by [deleted] »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #32
curiousmindz wrote: post #14

This issue is way overblown here on HN. In day-to-day usage, I have rarely been annoyed by these "inconsistencies". The best example to illustrate this article is: Installing a driver with the Windows XP layer. That's probably something that will only happen to people installing very old hardware with drivers from over 10 years ago. I consider that a backward compatibility win: It is great that it even works in Windo…

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, people bash Linux distros for inconsistent UIs so I get a kick out of pointing out that the shoe is on the other foot.

[deleted]

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#40

Post by deltron3030 »

vsskanth wrote: post #9

How is MacOS able to maintain such a consistent UI even with massive changes in their design language ? Is Windows UI not a separate layer or something that they can update ? Or is it that the UI elements somehow get baked into the program at the time you build it, so if you didn't update you are just stuck with that particular version of UI you built the program ?

I think it relates to how their internal structure is set up and their brand positioning. Apple has only one design team and design system I think, and only caters to folks who prefer simplicity over power features.

I suspect that Windows is more like compilation of what different teams produce at MS, each with their own design opinions and target audience.

I can only imagine how challenging it is to serve beginners and power users with the same UI at the same time in Windows, which kinda implies different UI densities depending on the part of the OS or type of widget.

Apple has the advantage that they get away with simplifying things and have built a brand image around being easy to use.

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