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SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

sparkfun.com

141–150 of 186 posts

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#141
I read the patent claim and ignored the rest, as the pros in these threads have been recommending that we do. I paid careful attention to the colons and semi-colons. There is one claim and it is short and not hard to understand. Take a look for yourself, you should be able to get the gist in well under 5 minutes: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6289434B1/en.

To me, it looks like the patent is for.... "hooking up memory together with several processors in a system, and having that system process 'media' data in parallel" with "processor" defined as "multiplier unit + arithmetic unit + arithmetic logic unit + bit manipulation unit" (quotes mine, not from the patent text). There's also a bit of stuff about how the arithmetic logic unit and the bit manipulation unit should be able to "operate concurrently" with some of the other units. It seems like this patent is basically for the idea of parallel processing on modern computers in general. If so, most of the computing industry infringes this patent today.

I'm not a hardware expert, though, and it's possible I'm missing something and the claim is more narrow. It depends on the exact definition of those processor components and whether this ability of some CPU sub-units to "operate concurrently" with others is common on modern computers.

All that aside, the patent seems to have no intellectual value whatsoever. I have no idea what the history of parallel processing is, but it definitely predates the writing of this patent in 1998. The only thing that seems even possibly new is a tiny bit of text specifying which units should be able to operate concurrently with other units. Is that supposed to be the novelty that we're protecting with the power of the law for 20 years?

The point of patents is that the public benefits from novel invention ideas being published, in exchange for the publisher getting exclusive rights to the idea for a few years. The public can build upon the idea sooner if it's published earlier. In what universe do we imagine that someone reads this patent claim and is enlightened and inspired to build upon it?

How is this patent anything but yet another insane, horrific abuse of the system?

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#142
post #91

Don't patents examiners receive bonuses based on the number of patent applications they process? And isn't accepting a patent basically checking a box, while rejecting one requires an argumented memoir and a lengthy back and forth discussion with the applicant and an appeal process? The patent system is skewed by design towards accepting patents too easily. I don't believe that patents are entirely harmful, but I thi…

I’m not sure about the bonus situation, but the US patent office is self funding (their budget is filing fees), so they’re is the perverse incentive to approve more patents.

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#143
post #5

I wonder if it's possible to make some sort of patent troll insurance company. Basically a company that attempts to collect as many patents as possible to weaponize against trolls and then provides legal protection to clients from trolls. The clients can share their patents with the insurance company too to help them become more powerful. Then when sued by a troll the insurance company goes scorched earth to destroy…

Unfortunately the economics of insurance & low settlement demands from patent trolls would simply come into sync at some point. This is because patent trolling is a low effort attack, while fighting them is a high effort activity. With an insurance company it would be no different: The pool of money from premiums still wouldn't be enough to fight all of the trolls because they would also all be pooled. It's cheaper t…

> Insurance companies simply aren't in the business of solving the root-cause of any given problem.

There is precedent for insurance underwriters to attempt to modify/reduce the risks of their underwriting.

Aviation insurance often comes with training or other restrictions more severe than what the FAA requires. “Coverage shall not be in effect until pilot completes FlightSafety initial. Coverage will then be only for supervised operations by a pilot meeting the open pilot requirements listed in ___ until a further 25 hours of supervised operating experience is completed.” or similar.

UL (Underwriters’ Laboratories) origin story is from building insurance underwriters seeking to understand their risk.

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#144

I read the patent claim and ignored the rest, as the pros in these threads have been recommending that we do. I paid careful attention to the colons and semi-colons. There is one claim and it is short and not hard to understand. Take a look for yourself, you should be able to get the gist in well under 5 minutes: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6289434B1/en . To me, it looks like the patent is for.... "hooking up…

If I give it some broad leeway, it sounds somewhat similar to the Parallax Propeller.

This diagram, for example, has some resemblance to his claims: https://demin.ws/blog/english/2012/11/22/personal-mini-compu...

Compare to his drawing: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/67/ad/43/be96187...

But, personally, I don't understand why we're able to patent something just by making narrow definitions of specific "ways" of doing things in parallel, especially when they don't feel "novel".

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#145
These kinds of patents really prove that we need to boost the budget for the USPTO since they're always having things like this slip through despite the prior art out there. It's much like the FTC in this situation where Congress knows that if the FTC is well funded then nonsense that businesses do won't get by so easily so they starve the beast just enough to keep it ineffective. I swear it's the same kind of setup for the patent office.

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#146

I've said it before, but if you support the patent system, but say patent trolls should be abolished you are essentially saying that patents are only for big corporations to protect their turf from new incomers. One argument is often patent trolls don't make anything themselves. So someone who makes a truly groundbreaking invention but for some reason (e.g. it requires huge capital) does not want to create a company…

I generally agree that patent trolls are just particularly good at highlighting general problems with the patent system itself.

However, one real difference is that it seems large companies aren't particularly looking to enforce patents like this one. If this patent were in the hands of IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, etc, would they actually be suing competitors (the ones that hadn't signed on to a non-aggression agreement), or would they consider it junk for purely defensive purposes?

Given that small businesses generally aren't receiving such shakedown letters from large corporations, I'm guessing the latter. Large companies have determined that it's not in their best interest to pursue such action. While for small non-practicing entities a few junk patents are all they have, and so they might as well try fooling some people.

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#147

I've said it before, but if you support the patent system, but say patent trolls should be abolished you are essentially saying that patents are only for big corporations to protect their turf from new incomers. One argument is often patent trolls don't make anything themselves. So someone who makes a truly groundbreaking invention but for some reason (e.g. it requires huge capital) does not want to create a company…

"So someone who makes a truly groundbreaking invention but for some reason (e.g. it requires huge capital) does not want to create a company for manufacturing it, should not be able to use patents?"

Correct. A patent is for protecting your profits after you invent something, right? So if you aren't making anything then all you are doing is fruitlessly locking up some novel insight for a period of time. You also aren't experiencing a damage to your zero profit. Worse, what we are seeing is questionably novel patents being used years after their time to browbeat people that actually do things and actually make things.

I would not weep if we were to abolish patent laws. I've been told they are there to help and support inventors but I've seen little evidence that this is the case.

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#148
post #68

I like SparkFun and I don't like patent trolls, but I have to say that SparkFun's mockery of the patent doesn't make sense. It is pretty clear that this patent was written by an engineer describing their actual system in great detail followed by one fairly narrow claim. I've seen many patents that are mostly written by lawyers, and I don't see any influence of lawyers in this patent. SparkFun's criticism is kind of p…

>SparkFun's criticism is kind of painful to read. The diagram that SparkFun claims is SPI is not SPI. The discussion that SparkFun claims is malloc is entirely unrelated to malloc.

Yeah this is where my spidey sense started tingling. He mocks "Dynamic RAM" but I don't understand the joke, there is dynamic and static RAM and presumably this patent is talking about loading the configuration at run-time as opposed to using something like Flash. What's funny about this?

As far as I understood the parts he was narrating it sounds less like malloc and more like a reprogrammable instruction memory. It's certainly not something unique and patentable but might be valid context for a real innovation.

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#149
post #68

I like SparkFun and I don't like patent trolls, but I have to say that SparkFun's mockery of the patent doesn't make sense. It is pretty clear that this patent was written by an engineer describing their actual system in great detail followed by one fairly narrow claim. I've seen many patents that are mostly written by lawyers, and I don't see any influence of lawyers in this patent. SparkFun's criticism is kind of p…

Yeah. This was painful.

> Al is claiming that they have patent number 6289434 which they quickly start referring to as patent ‘434. Can I tell you how humorous it is that an attorney feels it necessary to shorten a 7-digit number to a 4-character abbreviation? Thanks Al. That really saves me some time.

The 3 digit “abbreviation” is a common thing in patent law. It’s because, when in court, they refer to them by those last three if they’re unambiguous (to save time). So it would make sense to use the “abbreviated” form in the legal filings.

Now, about it being expired:

> Patent 6289434 was written in 1998 and granted in 2001. I’ll start by pointing out that patents are valid for 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed, so 2018, but I’m no patent attorney.

IANAL as well, but Google Patents[0] lists it as expired worldwide… Can anyone chime in about this?

[0]: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6289434B1/en

Re: SparkFun Hooks a Patent Troll

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mistaken. The lawsuit itself is clearly referring to dynamic memory allocation. It refers to "static or dynamic ram" to mean RAM in general, but the paragraph has nothing to do with the characteristics of SRAM vs DRAM. From page 6 of the lawsuit [0]: > in fixed function implementations all possible functional requirements of the necessary data processing must be implemented on the silicon regardless of the fi…

No, you are obviously wrong here. Even the wording of the lawsuit is extremely clear: "The cost is further reduced by employing only static or dynamic ram as a means for holding the state of the system." - that is, they only use S/D RAM for holding the state of the system, no other kind of memory. I have no idea how you can misread this to think it refers to requesting memory dynamically - they explicitly say "static…

Requesting memory “dynamically” has nothing to do with “dynamic’ in ‘dynamic memory”.

Requesting dynamically means that RAM is allocated while a program is running, not at compile or simply launch time. That is a software consideration.

Dynamic RAM means memory that requires refreshes to maintain the information it stores. A completely unrelated hardware concern.

The word dynamic simply means something that happens in time so is used in a myriad of otherwise quite different computing concepts.

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