The most precious resource is agency • Hacker News Board

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#201

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:30 PM UTC

0-_-0 wrote: post #164

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That brings up an old memory for me: I used to work as a lifeguard at a pool for three or four years as I was going through uni. Nothing glamorous in that work, it's just very loosely managing young males showing off in front of young females. Except this one time some kid jumped in the deep end and whilst he surfaced, he couldn't reach the top of the side of the pool in order to stay at the surface, he was clutching…

I vaguely recall a study where they took suicidal people and employed them as lifeguards with great results.

[deleted]

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#202

Post by Aunche » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #76

Aunche wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you you shorten the timespan and only look at cultural changes since, say, the 1970s, though, it seems we've sacrificed a lot of what makes us human (community, interconnectedness, a sense of wonder about the future etc.) at the altar of free market economics Free market economics didn't tell people to spend less time with their families and more time consuming entertainment media. Moreover, the argument that we…

>Free market economics didn't tell people to spend less time with their families and more time consuming entertainment media. It literally did. I've probably seen tens of thousands of advertisements for games consoles, films and Netflix-style streaming services. >from the perspective of a white male Many women would disagree with you on the "male" part.

Advertisement can only sell something that people want. If we swapped all video game advertising with Math Olympiad advertising, we both still know which one is going to be much more popular. Games with zero marketing budgets have no problem selling millions of copies.

>Many women would disagree with you on the "male" part.

And any woman with a professional job would disagree.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#203

Post by ElFitz » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #185

ElFitz wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And in practice raising superintelligent children who can clone themselves and rewrite their minds is not a thing we know how to do. We could learn to. Through trial and error. Even though a too big mistake means creating a psychopathic superinterlligent child who can clone itself, rewrite turns mind and easily hack the few American ICBMs not protected by the wondrous safety of floppy disks.

Seems a bit crazy to assume we’ll jump from ‘not close to human’ to ‘superintelligent’ without going through ‘barely adequate’?

Oh, definitely.

I was just musing on the previous comment and noting that one of the things we do best is learn how to do things we previously didn’t how to do.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#204

Post by kitd » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

I think the article misses the fact that "childhood" in the past was more or less defined as just the stage of your life until you could do something useful, regardless of age. So as a child growing up in that environment, finding something useful to do was more or less the basic minimum to be accepted. Schooling was just an add-on in comparison.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#205

Post by seneca » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #42

eikenberry wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The basic life script we all seem to have in western society seems pretty awful when you think critically about it. Not if you've studied much history. Modern western society is awesome compared to what nearly all of our ancestors lived through. Wanting more is good, but denigrating things that nearly anyone from history would kill for doesn't sound right.

>Modern western society is awesome compared to what nearly all of our ancestors lived through. Any sane person would agree with you in the sense that it's definitely better to be alive in 2021 than 1621. If you you shorten the timespan and only look at cultural changes since, say, the 1970s, though, it seems we've sacrificed a lot of what makes us human (community, interconnectedness, a sense of wonder about the futu…

It's self-evident, and the research backs up, that our communities have all but died in the time frame you specified. However, it's not really clear, and the research I've read does not agree, that it is because of free market economics, at least not directly.

I think this subject is one of the more important ones to the US right now, and is largely ignored because it makes a lot of ideologies look bad. I'd be curious what leads you to your accusation.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#206

Post by kaybe » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

xnxn wrote: post #97

handmodel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never get what motivates people to blame the system here. If you have 150k in the bank you could go to a remote place in the US, take a lowkey job where you work 25 hours a week, and live perfectly fine. No one is stopping you. The only reason you don't do this is because you like nice things, nice food cooked for you, nice immenities, and want your kids to have material prosperity.

I just cut out avocado toast and now I'm well on my way to 150k!

How much is an avocado in the US?

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#207

Post by inglor_cz » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

solveit wrote: post #135

onion2k wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this not FU money yet? You're the problem, not the regular job. I think we have very different ideas of what "FU money" means. FU money is literally enough to be able to do what you want. It's being able to stop asking "Can I afford this?" because you definitely can. It's being able to stop making a choice between two sports cars because you can afford both. It's being able to buy the exact house you want because…

> FU money is literally the ability to say FU and do something anyway when someone says you can't. I always thought FU money was enough money that you can say FU and not do something when someone says you have to. That is, enough money to retire (get fired) on a whim. Of course, even by that definition, 750k isn't FU money unless you're single in a LCOL area (or fairly close to a predictable death, I guess). My perso…

If you are willing to move to another country ... 750k would be FU money in Czechia. Even for a family of four.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#208

Post by leoedin » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

agent008t wrote: post #199

leoedin wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a 14 month year old. The daily grind is relentless. But it's not miserable. I've watched a tiny helpless creature turn into a curious little person who can walk around and play with things, who gives me big smiles and hugs when he sees me, who takes real joy in such stupid things (current obsession: bike helmets). It's hard to quantify why that's a good thing - much like to many of my friends the idea of vol…

But how did you decide that this is what you wanted? It is a big, life-changing decision to make. Did you wake up one morning and think, 'you know what, having a child would really make my life a lot better'? Or had you been looking forward to becoming a parent from an early age, and were just looking for the right time? E.g. I certainly didn't even think of it when I was 16 - I was dreaming of other things. Nothing…

It's an interesting question - I'm not sure there was ever a lightbulb moment. I think I've always thought "I will have kids some day" - even as a teenager. How much of that is just following the societal norms I don't know. I enjoy playing with kids though - maybe that contributed to that feeling. I'd say by the time I was 26 or 27 I was fairly sure I wanted kids soon (helped by being in a stable long term relationship). I was 29 when my son was born.

One thing you become aware of quite quickly when you start seriously looking into kids is that the biological realities are much harsher than society leads you to believe. Having kids when the mum is much over 35 gets really difficult really quickly. Once I realised that, knowing that I did want children eventually, it made the decision to expedite things easier. I decided I'd rather make the leap sooner than regret it.

I don't think it's a very logical decision though - interestingly I think a lot of the people I know with children today were quite impulsive and of-the-moment in their early 20s. The more sensible ones haven't had kids yet - perhaps because it's hard to make a reasoned decision about it.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#209

Post by toomanyducks » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

planet-and-halo wrote: post #24

overgard wrote: post #18

One of the biggest tragedies isn't just that the childhood is wasted, but that many people never learn to have agency once it is available. I'm not saying you need to start your own business or anything like that, but it seems like most people live their lives never questioning the scripts that are given to them. The basic life script we all seem to have in western society seems pretty awful when you think critically…

I suspect we are all the prisoners of long-dead economists. Their ideas of people as atomic resources were useful abstractions in some ways (I agree with the point below that their work has led to great material prosperity), but they have also influenced entire generations of overly bureaucratic and inhumane policies. People are treated as "things" to be "managed," and as a consequence they develop learned helplessne…

This. It's really easy to view our neoliberal climate as wholly dependent on the individual when you're priveralaged and already, in some way, succeeding. I did, and then I came out as trans, and also as nonbinary. Now, 'the system' is so much more important. Old white men's opinions on my existence could take away my transition (both medical and social) and my life with enough effort, or they could simply deny efforts to improve it (as they so often do). And I can't imagine what it would be like to deal with this and/or be non-white, disabled, or non-rich, for a few examples. In some ways I'm lucky to understand both perspectives, but the perspective of the unprivelaged matters so much more.

This is why I feel that an individual contribution from my life is not enough. No matter how many fires I put out in people's homes, there's still going to be that fucking arsonist.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#210

Post by pnutjam » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #26

overgard wrote: post #18

One of the biggest tragedies isn't just that the childhood is wasted, but that many people never learn to have agency once it is available. I'm not saying you need to start your own business or anything like that, but it seems like most people live their lives never questioning the scripts that are given to them. The basic life script we all seem to have in western society seems pretty awful when you think critically…

I went and did the other side, living nontraditionally and trying to be what I wanted. I just applied for a regular job. Because to be honest, it’s gonna be pretty sweet having a fat bank account, even if it’ll take till I’m 50 to have FU money. My current hypothesis is that the team is all that matters. The work can be the most boring, crud-type work. As long as you’re working with people you like on something vague…

I started a family early and clawed my way up the income ladder until I mostly make enough to support my 6 kids and wife.

It's been tough, but I wouldn't change it. I try to concentrate on helping where I can. I think our mission is to try and make the world just a bit better for at least the people around you. Do good and avoid creating hurt in the process.