Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave • Hacker News Board

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#281

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 7:40 AM UTC

kiloreux wrote: post #6

The affects of this on third world country are even worse. Here in Algeria we are having the worst drought in over 20 years. What I fear, is that if this continues to happen, people could literally start dying from thirst again. I wonder how good is desalination of sea water technology and if we could see some startups that explore this field, certainly a lot of people's lives to be changed.

I think current desalination methods either use massive amounts of energy or massive amounts of space.

Some suggested nuclear power, but I think there are better forms of energy production, especially since you don't need base load or capacity, so solar and wind are much better here.

Of couse solar space conflicts with desalination itself. You could just use the sun to evaporate the water in the first place.

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#282

Post by fragbait65 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #154

There are 241 coal power plants in the USA. Get 50 people chained up in front of the gates, and stop workers and coal coming in. Maintain this human blockade until the last coal power plant is shut down. Ignore arrests and ignore the police. Screw the impact on the 'investment'. The grid will handle the loss of electricity anyway. That's about 12,000 people across the USA who could actively shape the future of humani…

Problem with that, especially in the US I think, is that the majority of people will not like what you are doing. The only way to enact change is to get the majority of people on your side. What you suggest will only antagonize people though...

What you suggest has only ever worked through history when protesting slowly enlightened people and the majority of people chose to support the protestors over time.

I think the US is so divided and fed up from BLM and the election chaos at the moment, so enacting change that way is a hopeless cause.

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#283

Post by fragbait65 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:08 AM UTC

Taek wrote: post #8

blondie9x wrote: post #3

To some seeing records such as these fall is heartbreaking. It’s agonizing and vexing when you wonder what can you do to help slow down climate change? The reality is we aren’t doing nearly enough to slow it down and the Earth is gradually destabilizing. We see insane cold snaps such as those that impacted Texas this winter, and at the opposite end of the spectrum heat waves unlike anything humans have ever experienc…

As an individual, there isn't really anything you can do. Going vegetarian doesn't help. Recycling doesn't help. Using your shower for 5 minutes doesn't help. As a society, we've chosen to manage resources via capitalism. If you use less water, what that means is water is cheaper so some corporation can afford another few acres of almond trees. If consumers cut their waste in half, the slack would be picked up at the…

I mostly agree with what you say, but I don't think any other economic/political system would do better than capitalism. The problem isn't really with which system you use, no known political/economic system can handle greedy/selfish entities, be it people, groups, companies or countries.

And enforcing rules like the Geneva convention will not work for the same reason. There will always be entities that bend or circulate the rules. (Example: Geneva Convention and the US and China (Not bashing the US here, just stating facts)

There will never be any saving the climate unless the US and China are onboard, and currently they are not. I might see that the US could be in the future, but currently China is hell bent on being the number one super power and they are ready to break some eggs on the way.

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#284

Post by fragbait65 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:28 AM UTC

andrei_says_ wrote: post #4

Maybe it’s time to signal political leaders that climate collapse is an urgent issue.

The problem is that we have elected leaders that only care about being in power. They will happily watch the world burn unless a majority of the voters want them to move.

Sadly I don't think most people are ready to make the necessary sacrifices to stop climate change. At least not yet. And I think we will pass the point of no return before people are ready to make those sacrifices.

The problem is not technology or scientific, the problem is human nature.

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#285

Post by lovemenot » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 10:37 AM UTC

Taek wrote: post #8

blondie9x wrote: post #3

To some seeing records such as these fall is heartbreaking. It’s agonizing and vexing when you wonder what can you do to help slow down climate change? The reality is we aren’t doing nearly enough to slow it down and the Earth is gradually destabilizing. We see insane cold snaps such as those that impacted Texas this winter, and at the opposite end of the spectrum heat waves unlike anything humans have ever experienc…

As an individual, there isn't really anything you can do. Going vegetarian doesn't help. Recycling doesn't help. Using your shower for 5 minutes doesn't help. As a society, we've chosen to manage resources via capitalism. If you use less water, what that means is water is cheaper so some corporation can afford another few acres of almond trees. If consumers cut their waste in half, the slack would be picked up at the…

This kind of argument is often made, but it is wrong.

>> As an individual, there isn't really anything you can do. Going vegetarian doesn't help.

These words are expressed as absolute. "isn't really anything" ... "doesn't help" Yet the reality is such activities are positive in a small way. They may be far from sufficient, but they are not nothing.

To be clear I am not arguing that individual action alone will be sufficient, nor am I against collective action enforced by rules where appropriate. It's just the tenor of your post is wrong. We can have both individual and collective action. And individual action alone, even if insufficient, is certainly not nothing. Less GHG emitted is better than more. Even at micro-scale this remains true.

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#286

Post by lovemenot » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 11:04 AM UTC

throwawayuw wrote: post #177

throwawaysea wrote: post #82

There have been some previous discussions on HN about this weather event in the Pacific Northwest, for example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27670739 One thing I want to mention is that it is not known if this heat wave is caused by climate change or not. A UW professor named Cliff Mass, who specializes in climate science and has written books about the weather of the Pacific Northwest, has specifically said (…

Throwaway as well because I've worked with Cliff Mass and am not interested in being at the receiving end of the retaliation that he's known for doling out. Cliff is kind of a pariah among meteorologists and climate scientists. He _loves_ that fact, and revels in this idea that he's the lone genius who got it right while the rest of the community got it wrong on climate change. But he's not viewed as someone who make…

Would you mind explaining your reasoning. This statement about climate for instance:

"the bigger the temperature extreme the SMALLER the contribution of global warming... "

Is it wrong? If so, how so?

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#287

Post by Taek » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:12 PM UTC

lovemenot wrote: post #285

Taek wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an individual, there isn't really anything you can do. Going vegetarian doesn't help. Recycling doesn't help. Using your shower for 5 minutes doesn't help. As a society, we've chosen to manage resources via capitalism. If you use less water, what that means is water is cheaper so some corporation can afford another few acres of almond trees. If consumers cut their waste in half, the slack would be picked up at the…

This kind of argument is often made, but it is wrong. >> As an individual, there isn't really anything you can do. Going vegetarian doesn't help. These words are expressed as absolute. "isn't really anything" ... "doesn't help" Yet the reality is such activities are positive in a small way. They may be far from sufficient, but they are not nothing. To be clear I am not arguing that individual action alone will be suf…

Humans psychologically keep an internal karma counter, this has been established in scientific studies. People who performed small acts of kindness earlier in the day were less likely to take responsibility during bigger problems later in the day.

We can apply that to global warming. If you do your part by recycling, this makes you less likely to feel the need to participate in bigger discussions around controlling emissions.

If you are going to spend energy every day on climate change, spend it in pursuit of bigger wins. We aren't going to solve climate change without bigger wins, and if we do get the bigger wins we probably will solve it without the smaller efforts

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#288

Post by Taek » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:18 PM UTC

samzon44 wrote: post #80

Taek wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an individual, there isn't really anything you can do. Going vegetarian doesn't help. Recycling doesn't help. Using your shower for 5 minutes doesn't help. As a society, we've chosen to manage resources via capitalism. If you use less water, what that means is water is cheaper so some corporation can afford another few acres of almond trees. If consumers cut their waste in half, the slack would be picked up at the…

A dictatorship[1] of the proletariat could do that! > I genuinely believe the only answer is violently enforced regulation. I would like to point out that 'violence' is not _strictly_ necessary, except as a defensive measure. An internationally-organized working class could simply refuse to work on destructive projects (new oil pipelines, etc). Unfortunately, people in power tend to react with increasing violence whe…

You need violence because the US and China stepping up to stop pollution doesn't fix things if the Philippines refuses to take initiative. The Philippines alone contributes almost 1/3 of the plastics in the ocean despite having only about 1.5% of the world's people.

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#289

Post by nirv » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:26 PM UTC

nextweek2 wrote: post #279

Someone wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France would react. If people start mass dying in Algeria, many of them will try to get to Europe. Algeria being a former French colony, being close by, and already having a large population of Algerian descent ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerians_in_France says there are 10 million people of Algerian origin in France. That’s over 10% of the population), France probably will be a major destination.

Before The Brexit vote, the UK prime minister David Cameron went to Europe to get a "better deal" for the UK. What he came back with didn't answer the people's problems with sudden mass migration. What should have been proposed was a unified Europe border force. Where each member state takes its share and also send resources to help manage the southern border. Leaving the problem to Spain, Italy and Greece is the wor…

Frontex is exactly such kind of a unified EU border force[1][2][3]. They occasionly use forced "pushbacks"[4] on migrant boats on Southern sea borders, leading to a lot of criticism and accusations of EU lawbreaking.

[1] https://frontex.europa.eu/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Border_and_Coast_Guar...

[3] https://www.euronews.com/2021/04/27/eu-plans-to-boost-power-...

[4] https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/20/eu-migration-chief-urges...

Re: Heat dome causing record breaking heat wave

#290

Post by johnchristopher » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 12:57 PM UTC

mbostleman wrote: post #107

Taek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not celebrating people dying of thirst, but I also think that's the only thing that will get the world properly focused on the issue. We need to make big structural changes to the global economy to fight climate change, and those changes are going to have an outsized negative impact on today's wealthiest and most powerful people. They aren't going to let change happen without a fight. People dying is what it's go…

How do we know this is the result of climate change? It's meant as an honest question. Though it is largely ignored in the mainstream discussion, I've heard for years to be careful about making a distinction between weather and climate. Are you thinking this is not weather, but climate? How does one tell the difference? If there's a record winter of cold temps, would it be evidence that the climate is cooling?

You are some steps behind the climate change deniers list of refutations (in more or less general chronical order):

- there are no climate change

- climate change is not because of humane activities

- climate change isn't that bad

- climate change might be good overall

- climate change is business as usual: improvise, adapt, survive

You can find more claims and counter claims https://skepticalscience.com/global-warming-cold-weather.htm here. I picked up that one following your question about cold winter.