Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit • Hacker News Board

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#301

Post by refurb » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 6:09 AM UTC

maxmamis wrote: post #88

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should literally be nationalized Political note: calls for nationalisation, in American politics, is a gift to the other side. It lets one paint the opposition as extremists without grounding in U.S. Constitutional law or the economic history of countries that regularly expropriate property. I get the impulse. But literally any other phrasing—massive fines, criminal prosecution, open-licensing requirements, et cete…

> Political note: calls for nationalisation, in American politics, is a gift to the other side. Perhaps you should rephrase this as "calls for nationalization run counter to my own free-market ideology" rather than a) assuming you know what everybody else thinks, and b) suggesting that conventional wisdom should dictate the bounds of acceptable discourse. Not to mention, plenty of countries — the US included — have s…

No, you’re entirely wrong. Any call to nationalize just firmly placed you in the most left of the left-wing side of the Democratic Party. The one with no power and the one moderate Democrats like to distance themselves from.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#302

Post by paulproteus » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 6:16 AM UTC

nimish wrote: post #210

paulproteus wrote: post #194

I work at Code for America on the Tax Benefits team, and we're working on a different website to apply for the Child Tax Credit. (See https://www.getctc.org/ and https://www.getyourrefund.org/ . ) From the original article: > Alas, all [People's Policy Project's website] can do is funnel users into Intuit's terrible [child tax credit] site. Today at work, I'm learning how to use the IRS's e-File SOAP API in the hopes…

How did you get access to the SOAP api? Doesn't it need a bunch of verification and special dev accounts with IRS ? Would be great for the docs to be public. >To receive the distribution of schema packages, you must have an active e-services account and be listed on an e-File application with the provider option of Software Developer. Your role on the e-File Application must be Principal, Responsible Official, or a D…

We followed the process with the IRS, doing a bunch of verification as you said, which gave us access to the API docs. We're only part-way through the full process of becoming an Online Provider per https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p3112.pdf

I wish it were simpler. I get why the IRS wants to verify who is submitting tax data to them, though.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#303

Post by fattire » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 6:28 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #237

cmckn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure. The IRS needs to offer a tax preparation platform, the grift in this industry is astounding. I've always had decent experiences with TurboTax, but they've gotten extremely good at making your taxes hell if you want to avoid giving them $89.99.

Why not ask the question why taxes are so complicated? Ted Cruz advocated for post card tax filing but everyone hated it because it would have eliminated the winners-and-losers picking that the tax code gives politicians. According to Ted Cruz, 9 billion hours is spent on tax compliance each year. Milton Friedman has a lot to say on the intentional complication of the tax code: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TruCIPy79…

NPR asked why taxes are so complicated. Ted might want to have a chat with his libertarian friends at Americans for Tax Reform (Grover Norquist).

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/epis...

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#304

Post by javajosh » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 6:30 AM UTC

paulproteus wrote: post #302

nimish wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you get access to the SOAP api? Doesn't it need a bunch of verification and special dev accounts with IRS ? Would be great for the docs to be public. >To receive the distribution of schema packages, you must have an active e-services account and be listed on an e-File application with the provider option of Software Developer. Your role on the e-File Application must be Principal, Responsible Official, or a D…

We followed the process with the IRS, doing a bunch of verification as you said, which gave us access to the API docs. We're only part-way through the full process of becoming an Online Provider per https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p3112.pdf I wish it were simpler. I get why the IRS wants to verify who is submitting tax data to them, though.

I was just about to suggest that rather than contract out for an end-user application that the IRS create a webservice and let people build front-ends for it. Too bad it's SOAP, but its not the end of the world. If you make you're app open source I'd contribute.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#305

Post by voakbasda » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #196

jandrese wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This year we tried doing our taxes using both TurboTax and FreeTaxUSA. TurboTax has a much worse interface, it took almost twice as long to complete the taxes despite having an identical return. TurboTax did find about $50 more return for us somehow despite having entered the same information into both sites, but that amount is less than the fee TurboTax would charge so we ended up submitting through FreeTaxUSA inste…

This is the sort of critical thing. You do your taxes once a year but the impact could be hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars. In your case it was only 50 but thematically this says that TT is better because it found you more credits/deductions. You don't know it's gonna "only" be 50 ahead of time. And the more complexity/money is at stake, the more important it is to get right. Once you are talk…

The quality of the UI likely reflects the quality of the overall system. If the UI is flashy trash, you really want to trust the same programmers with actual math? Source: programmer for 30 years

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#306

Post by djbebs » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 7:25 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #177

user3939382 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget the CPA trade associations who are right there with them lobbying for the same nonsense tax complexity.

The tax code is complex because people do not want to pay tax, and so anything that is ambiguous or underspecified becomes a loophole, the closing of which generally adds complexity to the code.

No, the tax code is complex because the state wants to pick winners and losers.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#307

Post by prattmic » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 8:01 AM UTC

lokar wrote: post #74

I know Intuit has legislators at the federal level in their pockets, but I would think that in a place like California it would be harder. Has there been any progress to have simple automatic filing for state taxes?

ReadyReturn was a pilot program in California that provided pre-filled tax forms. Unfortunately, lobbying by Intuit helped kill it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyReturn

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#308

Post by bschwindHN » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 8:05 AM UTC

black6 wrote: post #56

hydroxideOH- wrote: post #29

What should I use to file my taxes if I want to move away from TurboTax?

Pen and paper. I've been doing it for the past several years.

Same here, if you have a simple setup it's honestly more straightforward to just do it on paper. Especially after form 1040 got simplified from 2019 onwards.

Still ridiculous I have to file them at all, but that's another thing to get into.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#309

Post by naturalauction » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 8:09 AM UTC

I used freefillableforms (mentioned in the article) this year to file an extension. I submitted it and got the error

"Issue : Business Rule FPYMT-051-01 - If IRS Payment Record is present and Form 4868 Line 8 checkbox or Line 9 checkbox is checked, then 'RequestedPaymentDt' in the IRS Payment Record must be on or before the extended due date but not more than 5 days prior to the received date."

When you search this error in the IRS error search tool linked in the email I got from the IRS, nothing comes up.

I carefully combed through my form until I saw the error - my "Date to make withdrawal" for my payment was a date in the past. Absolutely no mention of the "RequestedPaymentDt" mentioned in the error was present on the form. Googling was not helpful but perhaps I didn't Google the right thing.

Why didn't the freefillableforms website catch this error, it can't be hard to validate the form to make sure the withdrawal date is not in the past? Why is the IRS description of the error nearly undecipherable (now that I know the error it makes sense - before I did I didn't know what it was talking about)? Why does the error not show up on the IRS search tool? I know when file my taxes I will definitely use a paid piece of software because the free stuff has shown itself to be useless (probably deliberately so).

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#310

Post by topherhunt87 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:51 AM UTC

Stupid question: Why would Intuit sabotage the CTC? What do they get out of all that effort?

I can understand the massive profit interest in blocking simplifications to the tax system: if people have an easier time filing their taxes, they might not need to pay Turbotax for the privilege. But what's the profit interest in blocking the IRS from sending poor-people-who-dont-file-taxes-anyway free money?