The most precious resource is agency • Hacker News Board

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#31

Post by IncRnd » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

idolaspecus wrote: post #20

My first child is due any day now and I’ve been thinking a lot about the central problems presented in this article. But I don’t know what to do about them. Should I keep my son home with me, allocate mornings to academics and afternoons to more practical endeavors? Should I teach him to cook? To garden? To build cabinets? To train a dog? To do his taxes? Should I send him to public school but supplement his learning…

> but I almost certainly won’t have the time nor the persuasive powers to convince a (hopefully) rebellious 7 year old that, say, grammar matters and gardening is dope. Seeking any suggestions.

Mine are grown up and have moved away, but I do have a suggestion. It's okay, and may be the best method, to just say, "grammar matters and gardening is dope," then stop talking while you gauge their reaction or listen to what they say. If all you ever do is talk with them, they will listen and talk with you.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#32

Post by eikenberry » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

overgard wrote: post #18

One of the biggest tragedies isn't just that the childhood is wasted, but that many people never learn to have agency once it is available. I'm not saying you need to start your own business or anything like that, but it seems like most people live their lives never questioning the scripts that are given to them. The basic life script we all seem to have in western society seems pretty awful when you think critically…

> The basic life script we all seem to have in western society seems pretty awful when you think critically about it.

Not if you've studied much history. Modern western society is awesome compared to what nearly all of our ancestors lived through. Wanting more is good, but denigrating things that nearly anyone from history would kill for doesn't sound right.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#33

Post by soheil » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:29 AM UTC

> Who could blame young adults for thinking that work is fake and meaningless if we prescribe fake and meaningless work for the first two decades of their existence?

This does not mean schoolwork would have been more meaningful to them if they had less meaningless work in their earlier years. Most schoolwork is complete crap that is highly irrelevant and should never be taught unless there is strong interest on the part of the student.

I love math and would explore every avenue available to learn more about it, to someone who hates math what's the point of teaching them derivates? Forcing people to learn stuff they aren't interested in only makes them resent the subject and kills any hope of them naturally becoming gravitated to it in the future.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#34

Post by jkhdigital » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:32 AM UTC

idolaspecus wrote: post #20

My first child is due any day now and I’ve been thinking a lot about the central problems presented in this article. But I don’t know what to do about them. Should I keep my son home with me, allocate mornings to academics and afternoons to more practical endeavors? Should I teach him to cook? To garden? To build cabinets? To train a dog? To do his taxes? Should I send him to public school but supplement his learning…

Hits close to home… had these exact thoughts a little over seven years ago. At one point I was convinced that sending my son to a public school would be child abuse… actually I still kinda feel that way, but I’ve softened my stance a bit.

I read up quite a bit on unschooling, which sounds great on paper but is probably only feasible when both parents are enthusiastically committed. Sudbury schools are probably the closest thing to unschooling without having to do it yourself, but there’s probably less than 100 such schools in the entire world.

One big realization I’ve had is that children really grow when their parents aren’t around. Schools may suppress agency, but so do parents. There’s a reason that all the stories in this article are about apprenticeships and first jobs—the outside world will always be a much richer source of new and unexpected interactions and discoveries than anything inside the home. Maybe that’s my suggestion: get your kid out of the house and around other trustworthy adults as much as possible. (I moved across the country to live near family just to make this happen)

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#35

Post by dannywarner » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

You can have way more impact as a teen software developer than almost any field in history. It is a force multiplier to the sort of talent and energy that earlier generations showed by doing paper runs.

I reckon open source projects and app/game development are great ways for kids to "reach" today. You can have a meaningful impact, learn a lot, and possibly set yourself up for live.

This Australian Ben Pasternak developed a hit game as a teenager, and at 21 he is being featured in the Wall Street Journal after raising $50m for a food-tech startup.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/at-21-this-entrepreneur-has-lau...

But this goes back to Bill Gates and Paul Allen - https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/02/microsoft-co-founders-bill-g...

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#36

Post by jkhdigital » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #31

idolaspecus wrote: post #20

My first child is due any day now and I’ve been thinking a lot about the central problems presented in this article. But I don’t know what to do about them. Should I keep my son home with me, allocate mornings to academics and afternoons to more practical endeavors? Should I teach him to cook? To garden? To build cabinets? To train a dog? To do his taxes? Should I send him to public school but supplement his learning…

> but I almost certainly won’t have the time nor the persuasive powers to convince a (hopefully) rebellious 7 year old that, say, grammar matters and gardening is dope. Seeking any suggestions. Mine are grown up and have moved away, but I do have a suggestion. It's okay, and may be the best method, to just say, "grammar matters and gardening is dope," then stop talking while you gauge their reaction or listen to what…

> then stop talking

This is so damn true… having a son has taught me that my words matter a lot, so choose them wisely and say no more than is necessary.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#37

Post by soheil » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:38 AM UTC

> The act of creation causes imagination, not the other way around.

I think this sentence is almost correct. The act of creation does wonders and induces imagination, but that is not the only way to achieve imagination. The act of just going deep on a thought and abstracting away the frictions of the real world can do wonders. Imagination is probably most readily available to a brain that is operating at its most abstract level.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#38

Post by mc32 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

planet-and-halo wrote: post #24

overgard wrote: post #18

One of the biggest tragedies isn't just that the childhood is wasted, but that many people never learn to have agency once it is available. I'm not saying you need to start your own business or anything like that, but it seems like most people live their lives never questioning the scripts that are given to them. The basic life script we all seem to have in western society seems pretty awful when you think critically…

I suspect we are all the prisoners of long-dead economists. Their ideas of people as atomic resources were useful abstractions in some ways (I agree with the point below that their work has led to great material prosperity), but they have also influenced entire generations of overly bureaucratic and inhumane policies. People are treated as "things" to be "managed," and as a consequence they develop learned helplessne…

Economists just try to explain things. They don't make economics. The nation and enterprises big small in concert make an economic system. But, go back far enough in the past before nations and businesses and economics were still in play.

It's like numbers, it exists even if we are ignorant of it.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#39

Post by dkackman11 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

Such a promising introduction about the importance of agency, and then "blah blah kids these days blah uphill in the snow blah". "A reawakening of meaningful work"? Come on. Tell that to the child coal miner or factory worker of Carnegie's era.

Re: The most precious resource is agency

#40

Post by jkhdigital » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #26

overgard wrote: post #18

One of the biggest tragedies isn't just that the childhood is wasted, but that many people never learn to have agency once it is available. I'm not saying you need to start your own business or anything like that, but it seems like most people live their lives never questioning the scripts that are given to them. The basic life script we all seem to have in western society seems pretty awful when you think critically…

I went and did the other side, living nontraditionally and trying to be what I wanted. I just applied for a regular job. Because to be honest, it’s gonna be pretty sweet having a fat bank account, even if it’ll take till I’m 50 to have FU money. My current hypothesis is that the team is all that matters. The work can be the most boring, crud-type work. As long as you’re working with people you like on something vague…

Amen. I’m a sober alcoholic, and if I died tomorrow I’d be content knowing that I did at least one worthwhile thing with the time I had: I helped another alcoholic, a 23 year old man who tried to kill himself shortly before I met him, get sober and start working and move out of his mom’s basement and stand up straight and look other people in the eyes and then go and help a few other people stop drinking.

Not a single professional accomplishment is within an order of magnitude of that level of fulfillment. Just help one f*cking person become more than they thought they could be and you’ll die happy—why didn’t they tell us it was this simple?