Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

pluralistic.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 332 posts

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#271

Post by zaroth »

paulproteus wrote: post #194

I work at Code for America on the Tax Benefits team, and we're working on a different website to apply for the Child Tax Credit. (See https://www.getctc.org/ and https://www.getyourrefund.org/ . ) From the original article: > Alas, all [People's Policy Project's website] can do is funnel users into Intuit's terrible [child tax credit] site. Today at work, I'm learning how to use the IRS's e-File SOAP API in the hopes…

Huge props to your team. Making this tax credit readily available is what, 20 questions of CRUD… So 2,000 lines of code that 10 million people could use to make $3,000 dollars, that’s so $30b of value.

Please make this happen. We need open source code driving this kind of value proposition. Frankly the gov’t should be funding you to make this happen.

Are you blogging your progress and documenting the pitfalls and roadblocks along the way?

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#272

Post by anonAndOn »

MattSayar wrote: post #240
cmckn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure. The IRS needs to offer a tax preparation platform, the grift in this industry is astounding. I've always had decent experiences with TurboTax, but they've gotten extremely good at making your taxes hell if you want to avoid giving them $89.99.

This year is the first year I've worked at a company that has stocks, ESPP plans, etc. and I'm curious what's the most effective way to file my taxes by myself if I don't use TurboTax? I've read that Credit Karma Tax (which looks like it got sold again to Cash app?) doesn't do a good job covering these scenarios.

Probably to pay an accountant to do it right the first time, then just adjust what they did going forward, ceteris paribus.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#274

Post by pm24601 »

invokestatic wrote: post #249
pm24601 wrote: post #246

I know that this may be a shock to technical types here. Back in the stone age, we filed taxes with paper and pen. For most people, it really isn't that hard to use paper/pen/envelope/stamp method. I did this method of filing for decades. Take the time to learn the basics and you will never have to worry about random ass programs. My tax returns were never "simple" but filling out the forms was not hard - it never to…

It's not just a technical issue, but also the tax law itself has changed. For example, you used to be able to fill out a 1090-EZ for your taxes if all you had was W-2 income and bank interest. Anyone who meets that criteria could complete it in an hour. But that "EZ" form has been completely removed and replaced with a vastly more complicated one. If your tax situation is just ever so slightly unusual, things get rea…

Lol. I have never been able to use the EZ version. I have always for a variety of reason used the 1040.

It is in the interests of Intuit to make the tax forms seem so so scary.

In reality, most spots get a 0 entered. Very simple math is involved.

Before you made this comment, did you actually try looking at the 1040 form?

* print out the pdfs * fill out * mail

Takes less time and effort than installing magic software and trying to figure out "wizards"

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#275

Post by avz »

tzs wrote: post #177
user3939382 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget the CPA trade associations who are right there with them lobbying for the same nonsense tax complexity.

The tax code is complex because people do not want to pay tax, and so anything that is ambiguous or underspecified becomes a loophole, the closing of which generally adds complexity to the code.

There exist countries with simple tax code, inhabited by people who do not want to pay tax. Therefore any valid explanation why US has a comparatively complex tax code must cite something specific about the US. A generic reference to human nature explains nothing.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#276

Post by kazoomonger »

avalys wrote: post #222
fleddr wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to give a counter example here: In my country (Netherlands), the IRS itself provides the software. Once a year, you download and run it. Everything is prefilled: income from work, bank accounts, mortgages. So if you're a boring, financially stable person, the entire process is literally next -> next -> next -> submit. Filling out tax forms is not a value-add economic activity, so I have no idea why you'd insist…

Your question is, why isn't the federal government of the United States, a country of 330M people, as efficient and effective as the government of the Netherlands, a country of 17M people? Large organizations are less efficient than small organizations. This is true even in private enterprise. Large bloated, centralized government bureaucracies are the most inefficient of all. Part of the "classic American anti-gover…

You just made me roll my eyes back into my head. If the situations were reversed, you'd be saying "you're expecting a tiny country to compete with the vast resources of the United States?!".

Fact is, there's literally no reason we can't or shouldn't be doing this. My tax returns are super boring, and the IRS already knows what they are. Just send me a damn form that says "this is what we think you owe, if we're correct sign and return it".

The only way your argument has any merit is if we start talking about going back to no income tax. Which is an argument worth having, but your current argument is simply absurd.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#277

Post by tzs »

avz wrote: post #275
tzs wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax code is complex because people do not want to pay tax, and so anything that is ambiguous or underspecified becomes a loophole, the closing of which generally adds complexity to the code.

There exist countries with simple tax code, inhabited by people who do not want to pay tax. Therefore any valid explanation why US has a comparatively complex tax code must cite something specific about the US. A generic reference to human nature explains nothing.

What countries do you have in mind?

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#278

Post by dboreham »

KorematsuFred wrote: post #153
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... https://www.propublica.org/series/the-turbotax-trap “ProPublica has long detailed how Intuit, the maker of TurboTax, and other companies have worked against making tax preparation easier and less costly. They have lobbied to ban the IRS from offering free, simple tax filing. And they have deceived customers who should qualify for the Free File product.”

I find this criticism somewhat weird. It is very common for companies or even individuals to promote and support policies that benefit themselves. Intuit is seeking self interest here. But why would IRS and our elected representatives cave in ? Are these people so clueless or unethical that they do not care about their constituents anymore ? And if that is the case I don't see how anyone can bell the intuit's cat.

Yes.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#279

Post by Miraste »

macspoofing wrote: post #265
Miraste wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recipients' other options are hire a CPA (obviously untenable), find the correct forms, calculate the credit themselves, do the rest of their returns by hand, and submit those (difficult for the target groups) or... pay to use TurboTax. That's the exact dilemma this new site would've helped solve if it hadn't been sabotaged.

> (difficult for the target groups) Why? My father is an immigrant, speaks with broken English and has no higher education ... and did his taxes for years with forms. Which target group are you referring to?

I'm referring to people with incomes low enough to qualify for the CTC. About half of US adults are functionally illiterate and innumerate, even measured by the Department of Education's (low) standards, and this correlates highly with income. I'm happy your father was able to do his own taxes, but he's not representative.

Re: Intuit sabotages the Child Tax Credit

#280

Post by stouset »

throwaway413 wrote: post #201
stouset wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government literally already computes the number they expect you to owe. It's how they send you a letter if your own calculations come up short (or long, in which case they will in fact contact you to issue you a refund). If the government simply sends you their calculations ( which they are already computing anyway ) and you disagree, you would still be able to file an amended return with a company like TurboTax…

To be honest, I don’t know much at all about how taxes work in other countries, including those at or greater than the population scale of the US. It’s a good point, I will learn more about it. Regarding the first point. You trust the government to do that for you? Genuinely asking. I have no stance formed on that yet.

> You trust the government to do that for you?

If they disagree with me, they send me a bill for the difference anyway. The only way that's changing is if I provide them with additional information they didn't already have. If after that we still disagree, "whether or not I trust them" is philosophically moot: there's a resolution process for disagreements.

And if you don't trust them to get the number right, nothing stops you from filing your own return with the information you believe is correct.

Post reply on HN