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‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

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Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#141

Post by acid__ »

Eh, I love my company and I love my coworkers and I’m unbelievably excited to see them in person.

In fact, I’ve already started going back into the office (since April) and 1) my productivity is easily 5-10x what it was before 2) I’ve had amazing so many conversations that never happened over zoom — both productive and personal - and as more of our company’s employees return over the coming months I’m even excited for more.

Most other engineers here that I’ve talked to have expressed the same sentiment. Over 50% of our SF office (hundreds of employees) has already voluntarily signed up to return over the next few weeks.

Maybe I’ll switch to a WFH company when I’m ready to start a family or something, but for now — I love my team and I can’t wait to all be back together.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#142

Post by bluGill »

HelloNurse wrote: post #77
simonh wrote: post #6

I think there's going to be a bit of a disconnect between worker retention and new hiring. Companies are going to want existing workers to go back to the office. Yes I think most will accommodate an increased proportion of working from home, but they're going to want to hold the line that if they want you in the office they have the right to insist. On the other hand when they're hiring new workers they're going to h…

WFH-friendly employers will lose less staff AND hire more easily than places that insist on returning people to office for no perceived good reason. But competition isn't the strong point of badly managed companies.

But in person companies believe that personal interactions will make the people they can hire better than the WFH companies so it works out.

WFH is hard to manage. A lot of things that get shared in "hallway communication" become formal meetings. I make no claim as to who is right, but there are downsides to everything.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#143

Post by pc86 »

BooneJS wrote: post #125
pc86 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly possible :) Even as someone with over a decade of work experience it's somewhat aspirational to work for a FAANG and get that big paycheck and all those RSUs. But no WFH is a deal-breaker unless they start opening up offices in Milwaukee soon.

Google and Amazon are both in Madison.

I actually did look them all up after posting this comment, and you're right. And Microsoft says they have offices in Waukesha and Wauwatosa but it looks like they both point to a sales-only office in downtown Milwaukee.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#144

Post by lotsofpulp »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #131
brandmeyer wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (This is conjecture on my part, I have no idea how many hours FANG employees tend to work). Then don't conjecture. Speculation doesn't add to the conversation. In the absence of evidence, it just spreads a misinformation virus.

> . Speculation doesn't add to the conversation. In the absence of evidence This is an interesting claim. Do you have evidence for it?

I listened to a Cartalk or maybe This American Life segment many years ago that asked the question “Are two people talking about something they do not know anything about better or worse off after talking about it?”

The consensus was that the downside risk is the two people coming to various conclusions even though they knew nothing about it simply due to our cognitive biases and how we interact with each other. Therefore, two people talking about something they do not know anything about might very well be worse off than had they not talked about it at all.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#145

Post by bluefirebrand »

HelloNurse wrote: post #65
_red wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well...FANG products have largely reached the point in development where new features are incremental and not closely tied to growth or churn in a meaningful way. Not being dismissive, simply pointing out...what fundamental leverage does a developer have against inelastic customer demand? Are customer going to stop using FANG products because advertising feature 3.2.97 isn't added this quarter?

It's feature 3.2.97 missed this quarter, but serious general stagnation in the medium and long term: if junior office dwellers replace senior workers from home moving somewhere else very little is invented, let alone implemented.

And with no one mentoring those juniors, it's very unlikely they will ever reach the same level of experience and knowledge to actually start making those kinds of impacts on the product or company.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#146

Post by fartcannon »

They sent around a form at my work asking everyone what their preference would be. The first guy replied to everyone with his preference: 100% wfh. Since he replied-all, so did everyone else. We got through about 20 employees, all stating their preference as WFH before a manager shut down the reply-all.

A week later we got an email saying people wanted 2-3 days in office.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#147

Post by r00t4ccess »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #136
TheCanuckster wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is the case, what are the forums people with less established networks and industry experience use? It would seem prudent to be aware of these other "HNs".

Reddit would be my guess.

This is my experience as well

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#148

Post by lotsofpulp »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #120
dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

> perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH I think the divide between WFH and return to the office boils down to something surprisingly simple: how much longer does your current lease last and/or how much office property do you own. Companies that are about to have a lease expire, or are growing at a rate that they would need to soon lease an even larger building a…

I agree with this line of reasoning. Owners of real estate, either directly or indirectly via owning interests in a company with real estate will have an incentive for everyone to return to office. Middle management may also have an incentive to return to office, lest they be found redundant.

Otherwise, I am sure most people by and large would enjoy would enjoy not wasting their life transiting back and forth to work.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#149

Post by spacedcowboy »

yohannparis wrote: post #50
ziggus wrote: post #38

Fine, you want to WFH? Awesome, expect a pay cut. Part of a modern white-collar salary has some expectations built into it, like the fact that people need to be compensated for the inconveniences of leaving their homes and coming to the office and therefore having to pay for things like childcare, cars, clothing, parking, etc. Don't have those expenses anymore? Then why should I compensate you the same as if you did?…

You are both right and wrong. Sure, you can hire a remote worker in India for less; go ahead. But how people are paid as nothing to do on how they spend it to work. If someone has a partner that can take care of the children at home and walk to work, are you going to pay them less than someone who needs daycare, a car, a parking pass? You pay to get skills executing a task. You put a price on it, adjust it to market…

Exactly. As a software engineer (now for 30 years), I've always considered myself a techno-whore. I sell technical-skills for money, and I'm fine with that. I'm very good at it, my stuff has been in several keynotes where the company wants to show stuff off..

I'm not especially invested in my employer, other than the stock price going up for all those lovely RSU's, but that hasn't stopped me working hard for one company for the last 16 years. The thing is though, that I work to live, not live to work.

I don't get a free lunch, but TANSTAAFL is as true now as it ever was; more important to me is that WFH (for me) is a major benefit, and this past year has shown it is (a) possible, (b) functional, and (c) oh so desirable.

So, for the first time in 16 years I'm seriously considering jumping ship. There's a chance I'll be promoted in October/November (one of those keynote things again) which comes with a healthy up-tick in bonus/salary so I'll probably stick around for that, but thereafter ? Close inspection of the market will ensue.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#150

Post by bluGill »

ziggus wrote: post #38

Fine, you want to WFH? Awesome, expect a pay cut. Part of a modern white-collar salary has some expectations built into it, like the fact that people need to be compensated for the inconveniences of leaving their homes and coming to the office and therefore having to pay for things like childcare, cars, clothing, parking, etc. Don't have those expenses anymore? Then why should I compensate you the same as if you did?…

> Why should I pay you more than some other remote worker in India, who'll work for a third of your pay?

Because someone as good as me in India makes a lot more than a third of my pay. They do make a lot less them me, but not that much less.

Because someone in India isn't in the same timezone as me. Call me at your local 2pm and I'm wide awake. Call someone in India then and you get them out of bed. Of course some reading this will discover that India is a better timezone than mine. I work with great people in Australia, India, and Mexico - it isn't possible to have a meeting with all at the same time because the timezones don't overlap right.

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