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How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Work Hard

#241

Post by random314 »

sidlls wrote: post #116
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in their 20s that they would be millionaires or billionaires Billionaire isn’t a realistic goal, but millionaire is a common outcome for software developers who work hard through their 20s and 30s now. It doesn’t even require a FAANG job or living in a super expensive city any more, just wise job selection, a reasonable amount of financial savvy and budget adhere…

> millionaire is a common outcome for software developers who work hard through their 20s and 30s now. No, it's not. It's common for some FAANG engineers. It's not common at all for the industry as a whole. Look at all these comments doubling-down on the "7%/$10k-per-year" arithmetic, as if the only thing that affects savings rates is knowledge of this basic math. For a data driven community there sure are a lot of p…

10% of Americans are millionaires. I would say that 90% of full time software engineers will end up becoming millionaires. FAANG engineers become millionaires in their 20s. For others it will take longer.

Re: How to Work Hard

#242

Post by giantg2 »

reader_mode wrote: post #117
giantg2 wrote: post #44

Hard work can be good, but only if you own a substantial capital interest in the company/result. But if you can hire people to do it for you, then you can reap the benefits and live a life worth living. If you are just part of the labor and not the capital, then there really isn't an incentive to work harder than necessary to keep you job or earn a measly raise. If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in…

>If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in their 20s that they would be millionaires In software development this is a realistic goal if you play your cards right. Plenty of other careers too. I think there's also statistical data to support this as well (hours worked early on increasing your income and net worth down the line). Working hard early on in your career does pay off.

I haven't seen it personally. I've done everything "right" in life and I still get screwed 10 ways.

Do you have any links to the data you mention?

Re: How to Work Hard

#243

Post by giantg2 »

xyzelement wrote: post #182
reader_mode wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in their 20s that they would be millionaires In software development this is a realistic goal if you play your cards right. Plenty of other careers too. I think there's also statistical data to support this as well (hours worked early on increasing your income and net worth down the line). Working hard early on in your career does pay off.

You got downvoted not because you are wrong but because you are right. Some people would rather hear they have no power and no chance because it takes away the bad feeling for their own agency in their situation. Others are empowered by their agency and act on it. Thank you for spreading the 2nd point of view.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-rol...

Re: How to Work Hard

#244

Post by richardwhiuk »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #234

Yet another Paul Graham stream of consciousness. He presents a thesis but forgets to support it as he streams out another essay. I take issue with this fundamental thesis: "There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort." He doesn't distinguish between practice and effort. In my view, practice takes effort and effort occurs during practice, they are two dimensions of the same thing,…

Because this website is pretty much centered around people who read/liked PGs essays.

Re: How to Work Hard

#245

Post by okprod »

giantg2 wrote: post #44

Hard work can be good, but only if you own a substantial capital interest in the company/result. But if you can hire people to do it for you, then you can reap the benefits and live a life worth living. If you are just part of the labor and not the capital, then there really isn't an incentive to work harder than necessary to keep you job or earn a measly raise. If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in…

then there really isn't an incentive to work harder than necessary to keep you job or earn a measly raise.

Some people just like working hard, regardless of the financial incentives/disincentives.

Re: How to Work Hard

#246

Post by kaladin_1 »

Nice one!

While you might not always agree with Paul but his writing usually reflects something that has been deeply thought out. I can almost see a man walking and thinking...

Re: How to Work Hard

#247

Post by giantg2 »

gmadsen wrote: post #88
giantg2 wrote: post #44

Hard work can be good, but only if you own a substantial capital interest in the company/result. But if you can hire people to do it for you, then you can reap the benefits and live a life worth living. If you are just part of the labor and not the capital, then there really isn't an incentive to work harder than necessary to keep you job or earn a measly raise. If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in…

if you are actually doing software 12+ hours a day for a decade, I find it hard you wouldn't find great success. unless you spend none of that time improving and just doing the same thing you learned in the first year, you will become an expert. Experts are well rewarded for their skills

My personal experience was that once I became an expert the company wouldn't promote me and then outsourced the team. It was obscure tech, so it was basically a dead end.

Re: How to Work Hard

#248

Post by richardwhiuk »

antiterra wrote: post #231
Gatsky wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is it - he is an obsessive person. He was working that hard because he wanted to. I mean look at him now, he isn't exactly playing golf or swanning about on yachts.

I meant to allow for that with the ‘assuming he’d actually enjoy a day off’ caveat, but even so, there’s this, from Walter Isaacson: “Every spring, as they have for more than a decade, Gates spends a long weekend with Winblad at her beach cottage on the Outer Banks of North Carolina, where they ride dune buggies, hang-glide and walk on the beach.” Yachts? How about this: https://moneyinc.com/a-closer-look-at-serene-t…

I just think that quote is a complete fabrication.

Re: How to Work Hard

#249

Post by richardwhiuk »

Y_Y wrote: post #16

Doesn't this sound shit though? If Bill Gates is so smart why did he have to work so much? Did he like coding and management more than days off? If a life of hard work is needed to get you into heaven that's fine. Or if anything less would mean you and your dependants going hungry. But once your basic needs are met then it's irrational not to start spending time on all of the other things that life has to offer. I fe…

I suspect it's more likely to just be fiction.

Re: How to Work Hard

#250

Post by gonehome »

necrotic_comp wrote: post #198
sokoloff wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the average for a developer really that low (in the US)? In the Boston-area market (now remote, but same pay scale), we're paying more than that for fresh college hires. Get hired, contribute to your 401(k), buy a house, and do that for 15 years and in most markets I think your change in net worth over the 15 years is more likely to be >$1MM than less.

> buy a house In my neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY, a 1 bedroom is approximately a million dollars. COL in the area where your job is is critically important as well.

Yeah, same issue in the Bay Area.

It’s frustrating because increasing housing supply has so many positive effects for the group. It’d make life so much easier.

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