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Shorting Bitcoin

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121–130 of 334 posts

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is proof-of-stake a proven technology yet though? Has it been shown to function without loopholes or exploits?

The first iteration of Ethereum's Proof of Stake protocol, the standalone Beacon Chain, has been working since December 1st 2020: https://beaconcha.in/ So while not there yet, it's on its way to becoming proven technology. A big test will be how it handles general transaction processing. The Beacon Chain is limited to finalizing Ethereum PoW chain blocks at the moment.

Other chains are figuring this out now and i havrnt heard of any majot hacks so seems to work out

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#122

Derivatives guy here. Perfectly fine opinion, but two issues. Why now? This is a general investing issue. Trading costs money, holding a put costs money, so why will the market do what you think in this time frame? Why are the puts cheap? This could be substantiated with some numbers, esp implied volatility. Are they cheap vs history? I don't know, but the reasoning should show why you think so. Note I'm not looking…

Except if you believe, as the author does, that the entire market is just scams and insider manipulation there is no meaning to be gleaned from any of the numbers. If it's all a sham it will blow up at some point, it's just a question of when, but that will almost certainly be precipitated by some unpredictable external event.

"Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." - John Maynard Keynes

Speculating on options based only on irrational pricing is a risky game. You could be waiting years for the correction to occur and it might never occur if the fundamentals change to make the price more rational.

You can increase your safety level with a known catalyst. In this case, it might be something like an SEC investigation into tether, but you'd have to decide on the timing, the probability that occurs, and how much it could ultimately decrease the related stock prices.

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#123
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tether will work until the day comes when there is a net outflow from Tether. Then it will all come apart, because the backing assets aren't all there. Like Madoff's fund.

... or fractional reserve banking

No, no, no. Cryptocurrency fans keep making that up. In fractional reserve banking, the bank uses deposits to make loans. The loans have collateral behind them, often real estate. There are real assets backing the loans.

That's not how Tether works.

Tether is supposedly invested in "commercial paper", but that has to be fake. If they were really buying commercial paper, they'd be in the top 10 commercial paper buyers. The trading desks that trade short term commercial paper would see billions of dollars of transactions from Tether. Traders report they're not seeing that.

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#124
The arguments outlined are not particularly strong unless you are already predisposed to not liking Bitcoin (which is fine, not liking a particular security is a perfect reason not to invest in it - however it's a bad reason to bet against it)

1: BTC is not controlled by insiders. Sure it's a great headline but once you account for the fact that a BTC wallet owned by an exchange that pools large amount of customer funds is not the same as Alice's Ledger nano you will quickly realize that assets are actually reasonably disbursed across many parties. Eg: https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-supply-distribution/

2: BTC by design will take around 10 minutes to confirm a transaction, further you will actually want 3-6 transactions to be really confident in finality. I agree, I am not waiting inline at the grocery for 60 minutes either. However dismissing layer 2 solution like lightening network deserves something better than handwaving. Lightening network works very well in my experience. Also I need to wait 5 days to transfer cash from my broker to my credit union, I wish I could use BTC. Finally wire fees are a trash fire.

3: Tether. Trading tether (or USDC or DAI) into fiat is quick and easy. Converting USDC to dollars is also easy. Yes tether is 'kinda suss' in a bank run scenario. USDC however is audited and regulated. I've seen papers both indicating that loose tether issuance distorts BTC prices and papers that cannot find a correlation. So this feels like a tossup (personally I hope all the fines and scrutiny on tether forces some house cleaning but I am not holding my breath)

4: lack of regulation. Regulation is not a cure all, Madoff pulled the wool over auditors eyes for years, no one was prepared for LTCM, regulators couldn't stop the 08 financial meltdown, and so on. BTC has no native ability for centralized control, however it also has 100% transaction transparency. That it extremely valuable. Finally centralized exchanges need to comply with local rules and regulations (have you seen the travel rule? That's some forceful regulation there).

5: is actually a repeat of 1 and 3. The insiders argument is overblown and turning stablecoin into fiat doesn't require 'good luck'. ( I am a very unlucky person but have done this multiple times myself).

6: PoW is ecologically unfriendly. Yes BTC energy usages should give pause. However it is only fair to talk about them in the context of the ecological effects of fiat money. Fiat printing is the way we have financed the last 20 years of war (whatever happened to war bonds??). If BTC underpinned our currency system there'd be a lot less room for environmentally destructive jingoism.

7: Libertarians are dumb so they must be wrong. Nothing to say here but ad hominem arguments don't seem effect asset prices.

I struggle to find arguments here that would give me conviction to say BTC will crash in 6 months. I am 99.9% convinced that Tim Bray doesn't like BTC as a financial instrument but that has no meaningful impact on BTCs price... (It is not like he's Elon Musk ;) - actually I think Elon's market moving mojo is all gone now)

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#125
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully most cryptos are moving to proof-of-stake.

Proof-of-stake is basically an oligarchy though, those with funds call the shots, similar to the current mainstream system but without any of the checks and balances (they will be developed for crypto, too, in time, but at a high price for the early small adopters). Another example of crypto not really being that special in the end, if it wants mass adoption - you can ignore the boring realities as long as it's just…

[deleted]

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#126
post #43

I love this sort of thing. He’s making a bet, explains his reasoning, and does it in the open! That’s great. I disagree that there’s no tech here. IMO public ledgers that never sleep are far superior(thanks to the hard work of many people over the past decade), and their advantage over retail banking will only increase. My online banks keep getting worse, crypto keeps getting better. Think about this: banks are CLOSE…

About the whole GameStop thing, for me the most interesting thing was how old school the whole stock market is. 2 days until you really own the stock?!? And then even some trading companys are just take your stocks and lend it for shorting?!?

They don't "just take" it, it gets lent out to them by your broker, who charges the shorter a fee for this. This fee (amongst other things) subsidizes your free account and low trading costs. For large investors it is possible to share in this income, though not via one of the currently popular retail brokers as far as I'm aware.

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... or fractional reserve banking

No, no, no. Cryptocurrency fans keep making that up. In fractional reserve banking, the bank uses deposits to make loans. The loans have collateral behind them, often real estate. There are real assets backing the loans. That's not how Tether works. Tether is supposedly invested in "commercial paper", but that has to be fake. If they were really buying commercial paper, they'd be in the top 10 commercial paper buyers…

>The loans have collateral behind them, often real estate.

There's still an assumption that the real estate can be liquidated 1:1 for the loan value, though.

I think the difference is not so much the collateral, but the insurance.

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#128
post #43

I love this sort of thing. He’s making a bet, explains his reasoning, and does it in the open! That’s great. I disagree that there’s no tech here. IMO public ledgers that never sleep are far superior(thanks to the hard work of many people over the past decade), and their advantage over retail banking will only increase. My online banks keep getting worse, crypto keeps getting better. Think about this: banks are CLOSE…

> Think about this: banks are CLOSED 77% of the time! Need to send a wire? 3/4 times bank will be closed

Physical branches, sure, but I don't know of any online service that has ever closed, in the UK at least...

We can send payments to other banks and they arrive almost instantly (or within 2 hours) any day of the week. For free.

This is why I wasn't that impressed when US friends were excited about instant transactions using BTC, when we've had this in our banking system for over a decade

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#129
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About the whole GameStop thing, for me the most interesting thing was how old school the whole stock market is. 2 days until you really own the stock?!? And then even some trading companys are just take your stocks and lend it for shorting?!?

They don't "just take" it, it gets lent out to them by your broker, who charges the shorter a fee for this. This fee (amongst other things) subsidizes your free account and low trading costs. For large investors it is possible to share in this income, though not via one of the currently popular retail brokers as far as I'm aware.

Some broker do this, when customers don't even know about it and also get no lending mony.

Re: Shorting Bitcoin

#130
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was unsure and looked it up, so in case it helps someone else: the person that died in Costa Rica is Mircea Popescu.

Yes, and our friend Pomp left this delightful message on Twitter to mark his passing. > Mircea Popescu, a Bitcoin OG, has passed away. He likely owned quite a bit of bitcoin. We may never know how much or if they are lost forever, but reminds me Satoshi said: "Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone." Disgusting. [Edit] To be clear I'm reacting negatively…

You follow bitcoiners on twitter? That’s interesting

I would have assumed you had completely segregated yourself from them

Yeah I also believe the coins are lost and the principles of scarcity do apply, this is acknowledgeable with more tact than what Pomp chose to say, its an assumption that can just go unsaid

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