YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#251

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #243

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my unscientific hunch as well. It's easy for hordes of fake accounts to add gasoline to hot issues online and people fall for it. Get things trending that otherwise wouldn't. It's cheap as hell too compared to a military industrial complex. It's interesting you're being downvoted along with the parent post about foreign propaganda.

In 2018, I was one barraged by about 200 comments in the span of less than an hour in reply to my reply to a story on r/news about someone hitting a protestor with their car. For reference, I objected to violence against protestors. The hundreds of replies were a variation of about three talking points: that people should be afraid of protestors, that the protestors will kill you, and that killing them first is justi…

Right. And you can never prove it but it's always posts that fire people up, never posts to deescalate. I'd often try to deescalate and those posts would end up downvoted as well. Arguing with them is no use either- nobody wins arguments on the Internet, the simple act of arguing with bad actor/shill/troll means you've lost. It all feels so hopeless but this is our reality.

It was one of the reasons that I quit using Reddit and other social media (besides this site)- although I do see some of the same things happening here.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#252

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #242

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But youtube already hosts a lot of 18+ material (not porn, but still requires you to be signed in and verify your age). Same with eg. reddit.

The problem is a parent might be signed into their Google account and allow their child to watch YouTube without signing out.

> The problem is a parent might be signed into their Google account and allow their child to watch YouTube without signing out.

At what point do we force the parents to take responsibility here? It's not a good idea to outsource basic parental responsibilities to an entity that has different goals than you.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#253

Post by tablespoon » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

powerapple wrote: post #221

justicezyx wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This current situation is getting worse and worse. Anyone commenting on Xinjiang here never get any truth themselves... Each time I recommend them to watch YT videos from non main-stream media, no one reply back with what they found out... And apparently everyone is happy to bash the credit of mainstream media, except for China/XInjiang, it's like suddenly a bunch of guys never set foot in Xinjiang, start to trusting…

Don't read news, go on YouTube and watch clips from everyday average person living or traveling to any area you are interested in. News has failed me for 5 years, with YouTube and everything, I don't need these journalist

> Don't read news, go on YouTube and watch clips from everyday average person living or traveling to any area you are interested in. News has failed me for 5 years, with YouTube and everything, I don't need these journalist

This idea has some pretty serious flaws:

1. An "average traveler" is not a competent person to really dig into the truth somewhere, especially if it's hidden. Sure, they can give you a good idea of what an average traveler's experience is, but that's pretty atypical and will not answer many journalistic-type questions (e.g. an average travller to France is going to tell you a lot about the Louvre and Eiffel Tower, not so much about the banlieues or Yellow Vests).

2. Where are your Youtube video clips of an average person living in North Korea? If Youtube existed in 1938, what do you think the video clips of an average ethnic German would have told you about Germany? Many people are prevented from speaking publicly, and others will just report the local conventional wisdom, full of the typical local biases and falsehoods.

That's not to say that one can't find out something important for either of these groups, but that will almost certainly be by chance and not give you anywhere approaching a complete picture.

Most people who reject journalism just go on to re-invent it badly, with worse flaws than what they rejected.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#254

Post by justicezyx » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

CRConrad wrote: post #247

justicezyx wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disseminate propaganda What are the criteria to label things as "disseminating propaganda"? Also, you'd follow the laws. Doing such thing as you suggested violates a lot of US laws. And in fact, China does have laws to force operators to follow other Chinese laws, including censorship laws. Technically, Google and FB and all those banned firms are leaving China voluntarily because they decide not profitable to foll…

> What are the criteria to label things as "disseminating propaganda"? Pretty much anything out of China? Because, you know, it's allowed to get out of China.

I am asking the criteria as the factual characters, not its source...

But I understand you. CCP labels everything coming from USA as propaganda as well. I do see you and a lot of US people share a lot of common values of CCP, a bit ironically...

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#255

Post by mannerheim » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

justicezyx wrote: post #254

CRConrad wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the criteria to label things as "disseminating propaganda"? Pretty much anything out of China? Because, you know, it's allowed to get out of China.

I am asking the criteria as the factual characters, not its source... But I understand you. CCP labels everything coming from USA as propaganda as well. I do see you and a lot of US people share a lot of common values of CCP, a bit ironically...

A blanket ban of all Chinese content would be acceptable to me.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#256

Post by justicezyx » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #171

gre wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daniel Dunbrill's channel has some good videos where he actually visits Xinjiang and interviews the supposed victims. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57qyMAySYc

> Daniel Dunbrill This guy? https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3127611/chi... : > Dumbrill’s YouTube channel has 140,000 subscribers while his videos, commentaries and interviews – on topics such as the Hong Kong protests – have previously appeared on CGTN. His long track record of providing fodder for Chinese state media to throw at the West has earned him special privileges not accorded to veteran for…

> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/insider/china-xinjiang-re...

The NYT reports are texts, without even a photo of any one of the Chinese observers. While at the same time, the report was working together with some colleague... It's rather dubious that such photos were not included at all... The reporting is also all about being followed, and has no information about what they actually learned. It's like: see that person follows me, they must not like me asking people around, so I wont ask around, I'll just report that I got followed. WTH? Are you are reporter or some kind of superhero? To report any kind of coverup story, you have to be covert and careful... This whole piece just looks to play on the customized lazy bureaucratic and use imagination to confer certain biased sterotype...

> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/22/technology/xi...

I cannot access, paywalled.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#257

Post by justicezyx » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 7:30 PM UTC

mannerheim wrote: post #255

justicezyx wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am asking the criteria as the factual characters, not its source... But I understand you. CCP labels everything coming from USA as propaganda as well. I do see you and a lot of US people share a lot of common values of CCP, a bit ironically...

A blanket ban of all Chinese content would be acceptable to me.

Why?

No one read Chinese in USA anyway. People are quite ignorant here. Had little appetite for alternative views, let alone content written in the most difficult language on earth...

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#258

Post by mannerheim » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

justicezyx wrote: post #257

mannerheim wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A blanket ban of all Chinese content would be acceptable to me.

Why? No one read Chinese in USA anyway. People are quite ignorant here. Had little appetite for alternative views, let alone content written in the most difficult language on earth...

CCP propaganda is in English, of course, and they openly run advertisements on the New York Times[0], despite NYT being blocked in China. You can also find numerous videos from state-owned media on YouTube, where they put some Uyghurs on camera to talk about how good life is in Xinjiang, as well as Twitter accounts that peddle apologia for concentration camps.[1]

There's no reason America should allow China to peddle propaganda on platforms that are blocked in China.

[0]: https://freebeacon.com/media/nyt-quietly-scrubs-chinese-prop...

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-twitter/twitter-loc...

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#259

Post by justicezyx » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 3:56 AM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #253

powerapple wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't read news, go on YouTube and watch clips from everyday average person living or traveling to any area you are interested in. News has failed me for 5 years, with YouTube and everything, I don't need these journalist

> Don't read news, go on YouTube and watch clips from everyday average person living or traveling to any area you are interested in. News has failed me for 5 years, with YouTube and everything, I don't need these journalist This idea has some pretty serious flaws: 1. An "average traveler" is not a competent person to really dig into the truth somewhere, especially if it's hidden. Sure, they can give you a good idea o…

> would have told you about Germany?

They'll tell you the Hitler guy is mobilizing nationalism and preparing for military expansion. That certainly can help Chamberlain avoiding his fatal wrong assessment.

And your reasoning of YT video non reliable, because of needing investigation and information is hidden.

That's a very flawed idea.

There are 2 kinds of events, those happening on a large scale, like genocide; and those happen covertly in covert surrounding, like an assisnation, gang activity.

For the second kind, of course random YouTuber is not going to get the information.

But for the first kind, of course a random Youtuber is plently informative. Not because he cannot be disguised, but he see the activities on the ground.

Your main steam media are just rehashing the taking point from some authoritative sources. They essentially are a form of entertainment. That's why news anchors are paid as movie stars.

US media is the worst kind of media. They are setup from ground up to seek profit. And we all know what that eventually leads to...

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#260

Post by CRConrad » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

justicezyx wrote: post #254

CRConrad wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the criteria to label things as "disseminating propaganda"? Pretty much anything out of China? Because, you know, it's allowed to get out of China.

I am asking the criteria as the factual characters, not its source... But I understand you. CCP labels everything coming from USA as propaganda as well. I do see you and a lot of US people share a lot of common values of CCP, a bit ironically...

> I am asking the criteria as the factual characters, not its source...

Yes, I understood that; that's why that was what I replied to. See also:

> > And in fact, China does have laws to force operators to follow other Chinese laws, including censorship laws. [ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27658931 ]

China has censorship laws. Therefore, anything that is allowed out of China is what China's censorship allows. The purpose of censorship is to suppress anything that could be construed as negative about the regime, i.e. allow only what is positive, i.e. propaganda.

Hope that clears it up for you?

> But I understand you.

Actually, I sincerely doubt that.

> CCP labels everything coming from USA as propaganda as well. I do see you and a lot of US people share a lot of common values of CCP, a bit ironically...

Yeah, right. And for condemning Stalin, I must be Hitler; for condemning Hitler, I must be Stalin. For condemning both, I must be both Hitler and Stalin!

Take that tired old propagandist trope and shove it somewhere, mr People's Democratic Justice.