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YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

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Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parents would have no way of stopping it. If you want to allow child friendly content on YouTube you could not block YouTube on the computer. If YouTube put all nsfw content on nsfw.youtube.com then maybe you could make the argument but the average parent has no clue how to block a domain. I am not making the argument porn should be banned, only that certain platforms should not be required to host it especially…

What's the difference between nsfw.youtube.com and pornhub? And youtube already hosts a lot of 18+ content, where you have to be signed in to see.

>What's the difference between nsfw.youtube.com and pornhub?

There wouldn't be a difference. I would prefer only sfw stuff on YouTube and nsfw on other sites. If YouTube was required to host nsfw content I would prefer on a separate subdomain to make it easier to block.

>And youtube already hosts a lot of 18+ content, where you have to be signed in to see.

Correct. This is an existing issue today, however, since the nsfw content on YouTube is a bit more appropriate than a typical porn site so I am not as concerned. Watching a breast exam or something like that is a bit different than a gang bang.

I would like to see the existing nsfw content migrated off YouTube proper onto nsfw.youtube.com or something like that. It can be a challenge to actually block inappropriate content on YouTube. Allowing porn on YouTube would make it even harder.

(You technically can block nsfw content on YouTube already by creating a cname records in your dns server, but the average person can't really handle that)

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in general agreement with you, but I think there should be a way for internet platforms to ban certain content. YouTube shouldn't be required to host porn (or anything too raunchy) just because it is a platform. This would almost certainly lead to young kids seeing porn. I know YouTube has age restriction videos but a parent could easily be signed in to their account which allows NSFW material and the next thing…

But youtube already hosts a lot of 18+ material (not porn, but still requires you to be signed in and verify your age). Same with eg. reddit.

The problem is a parent might be signed into their Google account and allow their child to watch YouTube without signing out.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hunch that a lot of division in the US atleast has some role or interference from Russia/China. No proof, but to me it makes sense and it is so easy to do, we've seen it happen in the past (Cambridge Analytica), and if I were an adversary of the United States, I would be trivial to sow discord amongst the populace. We're currently witnessing some fractures in the US military leadership as well. I don't mean…

This is my unscientific hunch as well. It's easy for hordes of fake accounts to add gasoline to hot issues online and people fall for it. Get things trending that otherwise wouldn't. It's cheap as hell too compared to a military industrial complex. It's interesting you're being downvoted along with the parent post about foreign propaganda.

In 2018, I was one barraged by about 200 comments in the span of less than an hour in reply to my reply to a story on r/news about someone hitting a protestor with their car. For reference, I objected to violence against protestors.

The hundreds of replies were a variation of about three talking points: that people should be afraid of protestors, that the protestors will kill you, and that killing them first is justified. They were posting things like "What if the protestors drag you out of your car?", "If protestors bang on my windows trying to kill me I'm going to run them over" and or "If you stop your car, the protestors will kill you" etc. They also replied to other posts about the same topic on Reddit with the same talking points.

The posts used the same few phrases and the same punctuation and style. They would delete their comments if a comment's karma went negative and then reply to me again. Many of the accounts had similar naming patterns, and no other comments in their history, as well. r/news requires a certain amount of karma in order to comment, so they had to have deleted their old comments before replying in that subreddit.

I revisited the post and accounts a few days later and saw that some of the account owners had deleted their accounts entirely, and a majority of them had deleted (and not removed by a moderator) their violence-instigating replies to my comment, too. I figure some of them did this to keep the karma and recycle the accounts, and deleted the comments so they can be used in the future without it looking weird or getting banned.

I suspect it was coordinated in some way, even if it was just a bunch of people in a Discord chat.

But what stuck with me was that there is a somewhat large group of people who want (other) Americans to die. They want people to respond to free speech and dissent with murder. They want people to be afraid of what other people will do to them if they speak up and organize. They want people to fear each other so much that they can justify murder with that fear.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This current situation is getting worse and worse. Anyone commenting on Xinjiang here never get any truth themselves... Each time I recommend them to watch YT videos from non main-stream media, no one reply back with what they found out... And apparently everyone is happy to bash the credit of mainstream media, except for China/XInjiang, it's like suddenly a bunch of guys never set foot in Xinjiang, start to trusting…

> Each time I recommend them to watch YT videos from non main-stream media, no one reply back with what they found out... Youtube videos from randos aren't very good sources, period, especially on topics like this. I mean, that guy seems like laowhy86's mirror universe twin. > And apparently everyone is happy to bash the credit of mainstream media, except for China/XInjiang, it's like suddenly a bunch of guys never s…

> Youtube videos from randos aren't very good sources

Sure

But a rado guy who have not even had the first-hand information, would be an even worse source. That's always been my #1 rule of assessing the reliability of any news reporting.

My point still stands, the mainstream media's report on Xinjiang is lazy, they have no first-hand deep reporting.

Note that the early reporting by Vice is the right approach [1]. But it still suffers from the same inconsideration to the different cultural and political aspects of Chinese society. For example, when reporters are followed by government employees, that's the usual lazy bureaucratic reactions to western media. Those are not evidences of "vanishing Uyghurs".

Instead, if they just pretend to be normal travellers, and hop on trains, on bus, on the street, and gather the information through small talks and gossips with real locals, they'll have much more freedom to reach deeper.

No, they dont think they should be restricted at all. They believe in free press; which was never been established in China since the unification in Qin dynasty. They believe that news reporting is so universally believed that, they would get whatever truth they seek just by showcasing their face.

From a larger scope, government in US enjoys an legitimacy through voting democracy. So they usually do not care much about criticism about their performance from media. Individuals certainly are much more sensitive to such reporting, but that's same for Chinese beauractics.

That's different in China, criticism to government performance is questioning the legitimacy. So the default contract is that media cannot openly criticize government, but individuals are given plenty of channels to ask for improvements.

Essentially, China runs like a big corp. It wont allow individual to openly criticize the leadership. But it allows a lot of channels to offer suggestions.

So the working approach, for US government, is to establish non-public channels, and inquiry the situation directly, and ask for the open dialogue in private. And obviously, that's what George Bush (the old one) did regarding 1989's Tiananmen Protest [5]. Basically, he asked for the information through direct channel, and learned what's going, and assessed from a balanced view.

And frankly, at this stage of China, voting democracy does not work in China. At least 20% of the population who went through Cultural Revolution still believes the fierce class struggle (age older than 45, just given an idea, there is no statistics). (The vocal voices who argue no one likes Cultural Revolution are unanimously intellectuals, who were suffering from the wrong accusations, which is understandable). And the colleague educated population is only 25% for 2 year equivalent, and 14% for 4 year equivalent.

There has never been any successful deployment of voting democracy outside of US for decently sized countries, let alone the largest country on earth.

Once China learned the techniques of organizing the society with more self-directed citizens, the people will naturally ask for more independence. The historical trend has been showing a steadily improvement of Chinese people's awareness of their rights. You may believe in the so-called regression of personal freedom after Xi's ascension to power. But in reality, it's more of a sentiment towards competition with US, not that anyone forgetting what happened before.

And for that, because of the vast size of China, YT videos, even rando ones are more useful than media reports, because they are showing nuances.

As for Daniel, "like laowhy86's mirror universe twin". Exactly, that's what Daniel stands for, and I have the same assessment as well.

But the truth is that, I do watch both. Although laowhy86 has gradually showing behaviors that are based on racial biases, and I no longer follow them only because I no longer follow much of the same content from Daniel and laowhy86 as a whole. Obviously their content is heavily temporary, follows certain trendy topics, and after a while everyone sees the futility to see diversity from individuals, because individuals are always, I mean, shows individual preferences.

> Even the people who bash the MSM rely on it for pretty much all of their information about the outside world.

That's the problem, right? One should start realize that their preferred media might not have the 1st-hand information on other regions of the world. And start looking for that.

I know very well that CCTV does not show negative staff about China. But it's obviously impressive to be able to showcase a lot of real achievement of the Chinese people.

As for US mainstream media, unfortunately, their hostility towards China drove me off just like laowhy86. They simply cannot even consider dial the balance of reporting a little bit.

For example, China was US' defacto ally during the cold war, China countered USSR's influence in Asia, even started a war to Vietnam, who was supported by USSR to invade Cambodia and Thailand. China was the most important ally of US during cold war [3] because of its pressure to USSR from inside the communist bloc. Considering the historical importance of Cold war and its victory by the western world, don't you think China deserves some mentioning. No, never... not even a hint.

Look at also the Dixie Mission [2], which also correctly predicted the outcome of China's political struggle. Given the widespread debate on "who lost China", did anyone give balanced report on Dixie Mission? Very little. I mean, at the time, Mao and CCP like US very much, at least not less than towards USSR. If you read the Dixie Mission report, you might find that the observers actually saw a lot of first-hand situations of the CCP controlled area, that gives a complete picture, not some biased reports by people sitting in the white house or Shanghai's foreign controlled areas. If Dixie report was treated with balanced view, there might not even be a cold war at all... As CCP explicitly seeks the support from US at the time.

> Also, you put far too much weight on "setting foot" somewhere.

No, I have not put enough.

I haven't visited Xinjiang, after the 75 incident [4], because I am concerned about the safety.

I intend to visit Xinjiang myself; and talk to the people. I remain distrust the 1 million Uygur story. But I have no doubt that there are issues within the area that requires continued effort to solve. And I need to see it through my own eyes to be confident about my judgement.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ&ab_channel=VICEN...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Mission

[3] https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/978019...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_rio...

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between nsfw.youtube.com and pornhub? And youtube already hosts a lot of 18+ content, where you have to be signed in to see.

>What's the difference between nsfw.youtube.com and pornhub? There wouldn't be a difference. I would prefer only sfw stuff on YouTube and nsfw on other sites. If YouTube was required to host nsfw content I would prefer on a separate subdomain to make it easier to block. >And youtube already hosts a lot of 18+ content, where you have to be signed in to see. Correct. This is an existing issue today, however, since the…

So you want your kids to be able to watch youtube without supervision, and you want youtube to be responsible for the contents, and you're not bothered by dangerous DIY videos, "viral pranks", very violent movie trailers, etc., but you're afraid they'll see, how they were created?

Kids should not watch youtube unsupervised, never. I know Elsagate is a conspiracy theory, but those videos are fscking inappropriate, and come as recommended content for kids, and youtube allows that already....

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China encourages/allows/supports I don't know any such concrete measures to support some creators. I do see that CCP wants to tell a more positive side of China on all sorts of media platforms. That in itself is pretty reasonable. I mean, certainly no other political group are going to say good things about China anyway.

No, it's wholly unreasonable to allow China to use these platforms to disseminate propaganda when they ban them in their own country. The federal government should ban Chinese propagandists from YouTube, the New York Times, etc. unless China unblocks these sites.

> disseminate propaganda

What are the criteria to label things as "disseminating propaganda"?

Also, you'd follow the laws. Doing such thing as you suggested violates a lot of US laws.

And in fact, China does have laws to force operators to follow other Chinese laws, including censorship laws. Technically, Google and FB and all those banned firms are leaving China voluntarily because they decide not profitable to follow those laws.

So if certain laws are passed to shut out Chinese propaganda outlets, that'll be totally fine.

But again, this will be banning individual outlets, not just platforms. China probably will retaliate to bann individuals as well.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's wholly unreasonable to allow China to use these platforms to disseminate propaganda when they ban them in their own country. The federal government should ban Chinese propagandists from YouTube, the New York Times, etc. unless China unblocks these sites.

> disseminate propaganda What are the criteria to label things as "disseminating propaganda"? Also, you'd follow the laws. Doing such thing as you suggested violates a lot of US laws. And in fact, China does have laws to force operators to follow other Chinese laws, including censorship laws. Technically, Google and FB and all those banned firms are leaving China voluntarily because they decide not profitable to foll…

> What are the criteria to label things as "disseminating propaganda"?

Pretty much anything out of China?

Because, you know, it's allowed to get out of China.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the same way Hollywood does these things to please the CCP. John Cena being the latest example. Google might not be currently much active in China but continuing to do these "gestures" is basically trying to please the CCP for future. These are all moves being made for many years in advance. John Cena for example didn't just learn fluent mandarin to apologize to CCP over night. He had been learning it fo…

Except the CCP will favor domestic companies. When things are imported, you have to partner with a domestic Chinese firm. They're imagining future revenue streams that won't exist. Furthermore, Chinese companies will reach parity and will compete back on the home turf.

> They're imagining future revenue streams that won't exist. Furthermore, Chinese companies will reach parity and will compete back on the home turf.

I seriously doubt that the US wouldn't be practicing protectionism themselves by that point - at least towards major rivals on the world stage.

Re: YouTube takes down Xinjiang videos, forcing rights group to seek alternative

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But youtube already hosts a lot of 18+ material (not porn, but still requires you to be signed in and verify your age). Same with eg. reddit.

The problem is a parent might be signed into their Google account and allow their child to watch YouTube without signing out.

The real problem with Youtube towards children isn't the videos explicitly labeled for 18+ though - it never has been.

It's the videos that are specifically geared towards showing up on underage feeds that are. I don't know about you but I'd much rather catch my child watching an R rated movie than them watching a video that is targetting them explicity while using creepy and inappropriate imagery.

Children aren't stupid, they're well aware that there are entire sections of society and human activity that are the exclusive domain of adults and it's completely healthy for them to be curious about that great mystery. The problem is when other adults pray on that natural curiousity for their own malicious motivations.

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