Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense • Hacker News Board

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#61

Post by tyingq » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 5:38 AM UTC

easton wrote: post #37

chasil wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprising that schools are requiring additional certs to be added a a device for internet access. This enables "keybridging" mitm attacks on any TLS connection that trusts the cert. Best load a 3rd-party browser and install it locally, rather than compromise the whole device. https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/01/08/the-turktrust-ss...

Of course, that means you can’t use the school’s Wi-Fi since now every site with https won’t let you pass. Just install the cert on one device (either school issued or Firefox on a BYOD device since it keeps its own cert store that doesn’t affect the rest of the system) and use that for browsing on school Wi-Fi if your paranoid. In my experience, school IT has other things to do than to watch what your browsing witho…

I'm curious what loophole will remain if/when ESNI/ECH + DNS-over-https starts becoming widespread. I guess they will have to install client-side snooping software.

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#62

Post by cik » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 5:50 AM UTC

What bothers me most about this, is how there's even a debate about privacy. While we (western world we) acknowledge the need for privacy and anonymity when it applies to sources in corrupt regimes, depending on politics and time of the day, that same respect for privacy seems fleeting.

Children are always likely to learn something about themselves that displeases their parents. This can be anywhere from sexual orientation to religious inclinations. As a society we can and should enable this exploration - it only makes for a better outcome. Any society that can ongoingly say that critical thinking has led to the desired outcome is like (IMHO) to succeed and grow.

I fail to understand how we've moved from free speech to lack of privacy in such a short period of time. Today in many places, people are arrested for covering their faces in public - though not in the winter where such gear is warranted. People are arrested for expressing views (frequently violently, but not always) that are aligned with many, and abhorrent to others. Privacy would and should allow such exploration.

To me this is fundamental we ought be teaching, much like basic finance. Bother are important to get through life, and the ripple effects will be enormous. Clearly I have a bias.

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#63

Post by voiper1 » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:06 AM UTC

cik wrote: post #62

What bothers me most about this, is how there's even a debate about privacy. While we (western world we) acknowledge the need for privacy and anonymity when it applies to sources in corrupt regimes, depending on politics and time of the day, that same respect for privacy seems fleeting. Children are always likely to learn something about themselves that displeases their parents. This can be anywhere from sexual orien…

"Myth #1. “If you did nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide."

The US supposedly already decided on this in the 4th amendment:

"Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

It's apparent how authoritarian regimes can abuse this, and it's becoming more common that incompetence or hacking can allow all this information to become public.

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#64

Post by tomcooks » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:12 AM UTC

I wouldn't expect most students to be able to follow this, if they want to enjoy their youth.

The problem is the school system, and people with a patronising ideal of what the State or affiliated companies should be able to do.

More and more happy to be living in the EU where this kind of surveillance nonsense can't be implemented as easily as in other parts of the world, thanks to privacy laws.

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#65

Post by avh02 » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:20 AM UTC

ddingus wrote: post #42

tremon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider this a teaching opportunity. Get her a Faraday case for the device. Explain to her that the case isn't to protect the device, but to protect her from the device. Try to make her control the device, rather than the other way around.

She is little, so yeah deffo time for tech education. My own kids were not particularly interested, but she is, so that's a nice change. Edit: I am gonna start with Faraday Cage. Thanks.

I don't think you will, but just to be safe: don't come off as crazy paranoid grandpa please!

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#66

Post by karlkloss » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:28 AM UTC

voiper1 wrote: post #63

cik wrote: post #62

What bothers me most about this, is how there's even a debate about privacy. While we (western world we) acknowledge the need for privacy and anonymity when it applies to sources in corrupt regimes, depending on politics and time of the day, that same respect for privacy seems fleeting. Children are always likely to learn something about themselves that displeases their parents. This can be anywhere from sexual orien…

"Myth #1. “If you did nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide." The US supposedly already decided on this in the 4th amendment: "Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place…

Millions of Germans thought that they had nothing to hide, back in 1930. Until they had.

I usually reply to the Myth #1 with "BECAUSE IT'S NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!"

Really guys, you don't have to know my age, gender, religion, browsing history and klick behavior to sell me a bottle of soda.

And for reading a government website or browsing a catalog of goods, you don't need to know aything about me.

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#67

Post by majjam » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 6:50 AM UTC

gherkinnn wrote: post #14

I don’t have a bucket large enough for me to throw up in. Disgusting. Ever increasing spyware, tracking this, recognition that, useless recommendations, ads everywhere I look. This stuff is eating me up.

Me too - im so worried about it. Most recently Im preoccupied with the loss of cash / establishment of the cashless society. All purchases can be tracked and all require pre-approval without cash. Really worries me.

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#68

Post by kwere » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 7:00 AM UTC

I believe we should accept mass surveillance in our lives as a public utility and heavely regulate/democratize it. Mass surveillance is too tempting for any organization to be fought effectively. In the case of youth education i see a strong case of publicly streaming kindegarten activities delayed of few second with a software that obscure facial traits and personal names in the audio (unfiltered version can be requested by police). This is a cheap way to keep accountable child carer while protecting childs privacy

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#69

Post by XorNot » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 7:20 AM UTC

karlkloss wrote: post #66

voiper1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Myth #1. “If you did nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide." The US supposedly already decided on this in the 4th amendment: "Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place…

Millions of Germans thought that they had nothing to hide, back in 1930. Until they had. I usually reply to the Myth #1 with "BECAUSE IT'S NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!" Really guys, you don't have to know my age, gender, religion, browsing history and klick behavior to sell me a bottle of soda. And for reading a government website or browsing a catalog of goods, you don't need to know aything about me.

> Millions of Germans thought that they had nothing to hide, back in 1930. Until they had.

Well this is just plain a massive rewrite of history. The Nazi's were not in anyway covert about who they were going after, and they enjoyed broad popular support to do it.

"Privacy" doesn't mean a whole lot when the actual metric of oppression was "we're going to grab everyone who goes into that church over there".

Re: Privacy for Students: Surveillance Self-Defense

#70

Post by procombo » Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 7:26 AM UTC

voiper1 wrote: post #63

cik wrote: post #62

What bothers me most about this, is how there's even a debate about privacy. While we (western world we) acknowledge the need for privacy and anonymity when it applies to sources in corrupt regimes, depending on politics and time of the day, that same respect for privacy seems fleeting. Children are always likely to learn something about themselves that displeases their parents. This can be anywhere from sexual orien…

"Myth #1. “If you did nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide." The US supposedly already decided on this in the 4th amendment: "Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place…

A great justification my dear goverment uses is that because they don't perform the search directly, (they use third-party private businesses), they aren't violating the law. Of course reasonable people will disagree.

There are a lot of motivations for private businesses to collect as much information as they can, just in case they might be able to use it in the future.

Thursday of last week a solicitor came up to my door. Didn't knock. Leaned their electric scooter against my house, and was "working" on their tablet. I was just getting home and after parking I passed them and mentioned that I wasn't interested in what they were selling. They said "yeah, I saw the No Soliciting sign so I didn't knock, but they are also having us run a scan."

They were completely unaware of how creepy that is and how obtrusive it can be. I played it cool, even though I was irate. They actually showed me the interface and it scanned for wifi and bluetooth devices and recorded ids, etc. My address and photos of my house were on the screen as well. (Public information, I know, but still creepy.)

Apparently there's a market for knowing what brand of wireless computing equipment people have on site. Imagine that. They worked for a company selling home security, smart home devices, and bug extermination service. My my.

It wasn't every house. They had a queue to go through. Apparently I'm a "valuable" target, people. :)