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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

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Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#241

Post by wvenable »

floatboth wrote: post #160
midnitewarrior wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a perfectly good PC from 2015 that has a Gen 5 Intel processor. It is 64-bit, 6-core, supports TPM 2.0, and supports the virtualization instructions, UEFI, etc. I have 64 gigs of ram in this and other upgrades, it works great, but it will die with Win 10 because the CPU isn't on Microsoft's list. When Win 10 support is done, so is my PC that I've invested a lot of money in. So yeah, it's going to become trash…

Why do you think that there will be actual checks for this list. This is just a list intended for OEMs that build new machines. NO WAY there will be cpuid checks to exclude your processor specifically.

Microsoft's PC health check software checks this, why wouldn't the actual OS installer?

For the record, none of my PCs support Windows 11. My desktop has no TPM and too old of a CPU. My laptop has TPM 2.0 but it's CPU isn't supported.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#242

Post by Schnitz »

madeofpalk wrote: post #180
quantumsequoia wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Firefox users are much more likely to be contrarian with their software decisions. I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to extrapolate from from data on Firefox users to the general population

You think Firefox users are going to be more likely to use an EOL-ed OS?

When Windows XP PCs started to become obsolete, one way to extend their life (at least for people that only used them to browse the web) was to install Firefox. I've actually helped someone do this when their freemail provider stopped supporting IE 8. There's people for whom a new computer is an expensive purchase and they will use it until the wheels fall off.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/end-support-windows-xp-...

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#243

Post by userbinator »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #188
userbinator wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone who isn't the sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" that MS is trying to convert more of its users to... fortunately, the majority of slightly-computer-literate people I know are not. They use their computers to create documents, email, browse Internet, and complain about the constant churn of the tech industry. They are constantly irritated by UI changes and other updates that had zero or negative impacts on t…

Presumably Microsoft will aggressively push developers to use Windows 11-only APIs to encourage adoption. I hate it, but it seems likely.

Similar to how it tried to aggressively push UWP? No doubt some developers will get sucked into the hype, but I bet the majority of Windows developers that have stayed on Win32 are not going to change. If MS tries to deprecate Win32, they will lose all their big business customers too. And WINE is so good that it got attention from MS' lawyers.

As a long-time Win32 developer myself, I like the fact that my work is usable on anything from Win95 and up. Backwards compatibility has long been the key strength of MS, so them doing stuff like this recently is playing with fire.

I'm wary of "the New Microsoft" far more than the old.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#244

Post by foolfoolz »

alisonkisk wrote: post #117
eric__cartman wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB…

i5-2500 with 8GB-16GB RAM (hooray for upgradable RAM) even with is integrated graphics still is winning platform for all important non-gaming consumer applications.

i bought an i5-2500k in 2011 and it runs games and everything else very well. this is the fastest “10 year old computer” i’ve ever had

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#245

Post by arthurcolle »

TinkersW wrote: post #221
my123 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TPM gets the measurements of the state of the system during different phases of the boot process, and only releases the key if those measurements match. It's also designed to not be able to be able to extract the key material out of it.

Measurements of what? What if swap out my GPU? Or RAM?

One of the response comments to my original comments seems totally on point. This seems like a totally insane DRM scheme. [0] [1]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27655320

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27656144

Can someone on the inside confirm that my using a new chip won't make me unable to boot into my Windows 11 install "Sorry you need your double secret trusted components to use them with our TPM modules, and thus your* software install."

* "Your" meaning ours, licensed to you until we decide to change the license.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#246

Post by EvanAnderson »

userbinator wrote: post #243
EvanAnderson wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably Microsoft will aggressively push developers to use Windows 11-only APIs to encourage adoption. I hate it, but it seems likely.

Similar to how it tried to aggressively push UWP? No doubt some developers will get sucked into the hype, but I bet the majority of Windows developers that have stayed on Win32 are not going to change. If MS tries to deprecate Win32, they will lose all their big business customers too. And WINE is so good that it got attention from MS' lawyers. As a long-time Win32 developer myself, I like the fact that my work is us…

Yeah-- I think it'll be like UWP. I just hope it fails the same way. Pretty much 100% agreement with everything in your comment. The "new Microsoft" is really, really suspicious to me.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#247

Post by lupire »

ChrisSD wrote: post #197
FridayoLeary wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling an extremely expensive piece of hardware while acknowledging that you intend on making it obsolete in 4 years time, for arbitrary reasons sounds pretty bad to me. And who cares if it's niche.

Microsoft has made no secret of how long its hardware support lasts. If anything, the total of six years is longer than the Surface average of ~5. The Windows 11 announcement changes nothing in this regard. Edit: The first gen Surface Studio was also about five years (2016 - 2021).

It still absolutely terrible.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#248

Post by orra »

arthurcolle wrote: post #179
mnd999 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TPM combined with secure boot will only unlock the disk if nothings been tampered with, meaning your OS security is intact. If you switch off secure boot or mess with the kernel or boot loader it’ll just refuse to unlock. I would guess extracting the keys from the tpm in other ways is not impossible, but probably sufficiently hard to be not worth it in most situations.

So if you modify any components in a laptop, say RAM or a video card, or you you mess with any BIOS settings, it won't boot? is this for real...?

No, you misunderstand. The TPM verifies the bootloader and the operating system kernel, etc: that those components haven't been altered.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#249

Post by shkkmo »

recursive wrote: post #204
bruce343434 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, because win7 is known for being "the last good windows" with some privacy. It may or may not be true, but a lot of people are adamant about not using linux while also trying to maintain privacy, hence they use win7. I imagine such users would probably use a browser like firefox.

I remember when win2k was "the last good windows" and then windows xp after it. I $CURRENT-2 is always going to be considered "the last good windows".

Windows 8 will never be considered "the last good windows"...

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#250

Post by supernovae »

overgard wrote: post #112
ehsankia wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

I'm still using a 2013 Macbook Pro (dual boot), and honestly, I could see that being useful for another 8 years. I won't be playing games on it, but it has enough GPU to render High DPI screens just fine. (Granted I feel no urge to upgrade to windows 11 either, so I'm pretty fine leaving it on windows 10 for the next few years.)

MacOS Monterey is dropping support for the 2013 Macbook Pros...

Windows 10 will be supported until 2025 so that is a hell of a run tho!

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