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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
71–80 of 343 posts
Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
#72I think the article makes a good point about the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations with no justification whatsoever, but "heaps of trash" isn't the strongest argument against this. Arguably, Intel releasing new CPUs causes that even more heaps of trash, probably orders of magnitude more than Windows. It's a silly argument IMHO.
I don't think it's a silly argument at all. Windows 10 will meet its EOL in 2025, meaning that our computers only have 4 more years left in them (or you switch to something like linux, but that's not really an option for most people for obvious reasons). This will make the computers unattractive on the second-hand market. IMO a computer should be serviceable for longer than 7 years.
>IMO a computer should be serviceable for longer than 7 years.
How many Windows PCs are actually getting security updates for less than 7 years? Your CPU will have to be like 8 years old when you stop getting security updates for Windows 10 and you can't upgrade to Windows 11.
Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
#73Sorry for the aside, but do these TPM 2.0 modules actually guarantee any additional security?
As ever with security questions, the answer to that depends a lot on your threat model. Microsoft say that the main features of TPMs are that they [1]: > Generate, store, and limit the use of cryptographic keys. > Use TPM technology for platform device authentication by using the TPM’s unique RSA key, which is burned into itself. > Help ensure platform integrity by taking and storing security measurements. One can, i…
I'm worried that pushing whole-disc encryption at people who aren't aware of the consequences is a huge risk.
I suspect for most consumer and small-business users, the risk of "a power surge blew out my motherboard and TPM, but I can take the surviving SSD and plunk it in a new PC and salvage my data" is a much more important use case than "someone might steal my PC and get at my valuable unencrypted data." I know we've heard people screaming about this on the MacOS side, but thereit's intertwined with the unrecoverability of a soldered storage subsystem.
Large and technical organizations who might need the encryption are hopefully more likely to have IT staff and policies for backups and recovery, so they'll be able to handle that emergency better.
Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
#74People have voted... with their money. Microsoft can't longer afford being yield back by deprecated processor technology. And the bad publicity of doing so. By not bumping the requirements a lot of security and speed improvements can't be done. This is even more visible with the Apple M1 release. Because of it Windows looks like insecure, insufficient and unoptimized. People have chosen that they don't care about ope…
What deprecated processor technology? The cutoff is not based on CPU capabilities or processing power. They just choose a point in time and only support CPU's newer than that.
Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
#75This article doesn't explain why it will create the waste? What changed in the spec, is it enforced?
I have a perfectly good PC from 2015 that has a Gen 5 Intel processor. It is 64-bit, 6-core, supports TPM 2.0, and supports the virtualization instructions, UEFI, etc. I have 64 gigs of ram in this and other upgrades, it works great, but it will die with Win 10 because the CPU isn't on Microsoft's list. When Win 10 support is done, so is my PC that I've invested a lot of money in. So yeah, it's going to become trash…
Can't you recycle every component except the motherboard?
Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?
Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB…
I have (a secondary) Thinkpad T430s, which is going to be 9 years old later this year. Since it is i7, with 16 GB RAM and 500 GB SSD, it is still a better computer than a median laptop sold today.
Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think Microsoft would want to make that same mistake again. I would expect Microsoft start pushing Windows 11 automatically through Windows Update for anyone on Windows 10, or at least start pushing heavily through popups/notifications to start the update like they did with Windows 10.
That wouldn’t work if the person’s computer doesn’t support Windows 11, though, which is the entire argument the blog post is making. That because windows 11 won’t work people will just throw away their computers and create more electronic waste.
"computer locked, you need to buy a new one to keep enjoying our stuff"
Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Security fixes and support.
You still get 4 years with 10. The Intel 8th gneration was introduced in 2017. So people who bought a computer in 2016 can still push it to ~9 years of service life, which is pretty good for an average Windows computer if they manage to do it. I imagine your average Windows consumer will have replaced a computer once already in that span once all the installed crap has stalled the computer to inoperable speeds. This…
>This honestly doesn't really strike me as a major issue.
You're saying this from a position of privilege. There are a lot of people that don't enjoy the same financial security that you and I do that will be affected immensely by this. I know a few and this is not news in their favor.
Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
#79Microsoft is late to the party here. This has been core to Apple's business model for years. Here's an example of OS support for the MacBook Air: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Air#Supported_macOS_re... The arbitrary cadence of abandonment is amazingly consistent and has no basis in hardware capabilities.
Exactly. I think part of this is driven by changes in Microsoft's business model.
Previously every couple of years they'd come out with a new paid upgrade. But since they basically made Windows 10 a 'rolling distro', they've been losing a lot of income on this side.
As Windows 11 will be free for existing PCs but new PCs will have licensing included in the price (as they did with Windows 10), they have a strong incentive to have as many people as possible buy new PCs. Just as Apple does. After all, macOS mainly exists to sell Apple hardware, not the other way around.
It's no wonder their support model is changing, but I think it's sad they are dropping models so young. Windows used to be great at very long term support on hardware. Probably the best of the commercial OSes.
Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?
First-gen Ryzens and Threadrippers, while they do support fTPM, are not supported in W11 and they won't be 10 years old in 2025.
This really gets me - my Ryzen 5 1600X and my wife’s Ryzen 5 2600 are still extremely capable chips, even if they’re a couple of generations old at this point. It’s only been 3 years since I built my rig, and two since I built my wife’s. I can almost accept the i5-4570 my daughter inherited not being compatible - but hardware just over 3 years old not making the cut is unacceptable.