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Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

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Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#331

Post by robjan »

eloff wrote: post #87
onion2k wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market cap doesn't tell you anything about the available resources a company has. For example... Gamestop's market cap did this recently - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GME/gamestop/marke... - the company doesn't suddenly have more money to spend on projects.

Not a great example since they sold over a billion worth of stock. They do actually have more money now. Microsoft generates more money than they know what to do with so they return large amounts in dividends and probably stock buybacks (I haven't checked for MSFT specifically, but it's all the rage these days.) That's essentially the opposite of what GME did.

MSFT dividend yield is nothing to write home about. Less than 1% per year at the moment.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#332

Post by ikerdanzel »

dreyfan wrote: post #42
slashdev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native apps means essentially building at least 5 distinct apps: windows, mac, iOS, linux, android. What a mess to work with and maintain. We already have cross-platfrom UI engines called browsers and they're very advanced and reasonably pleasant to work with these days. If you bundle the browser (electron) then you don't have to worry about differences between browsers. So electron makes plenty of sense to developer…

Microsoft is a $2T company, I feel like they could afford to do it right.

Share market can double overnight while hiring process will take months. Plus, market valuation increase purely due to the last shares traded between owners of the MSFT shares unless MS themselves participate to raise capital by issuing more shares. Borrowing now is way cheaper as 2T means they cashflow in coming months need to reflect that.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#333

Post by eloff »

robjan wrote: post #331
eloff wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a great example since they sold over a billion worth of stock. They do actually have more money now. Microsoft generates more money than they know what to do with so they return large amounts in dividends and probably stock buybacks (I haven't checked for MSFT specifically, but it's all the rage these days.) That's essentially the opposite of what GME did.

MSFT dividend yield is nothing to write home about. Less than 1% per year at the moment.

That's mostly because of the stock run-up, I recall it was around 3% late last year.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#334

Post by shubham_sinha »

I guess the challenge for MS wasn't to make native app on multiple platforms but to beat the competition i.e Slack as fast as they can.

They operated like a startup. Used electron, reached to market fast, gained traction. Now they can thing for performance improvements.

Note: Most of the users using MS Teams are not startups but listed companies. That's a constant source of revenue. Tapping that segment with not so shitty electron app has worked wonders for MS

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#335

Post by prepend »

failwhaleshark wrote: post #138
dreyfan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is a $2T company, I feel like they could afford to do it right.

Balance-sheet aggregation != perfect execution consistency. - DOS 4.0 - Microsoft Bob - Windows ME - Windows Vista - JScript - MSJVM - Zune - Eliminating all/most easter eggs https://www.infoworld.com/article/2612971/microsoft-s-13-wor... You can make many, many mistakes as a giant company, so long as they're not fatal. ;-)

Zune was good.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#336

Post by nomorewords »

makecheck wrote: post #225

Somewhere along the line, we really lost it in software. A few decades ago I paid about $1000 for a one MEGABYTE memory upgrade, and even that was needed only because a single graphics application at that time could clearly benefit from the extra RAM to do more things. Now? I have 32 GIGABYTES of RAM, and we are celebrating that a chat client has now managed to find a way to use a slightly less absurd amount of memor…

You could argue that the companies were brought to the success they have due to the fact that they were fast to market to all available platforms. And to think of it, I don't reckon a small company writing a client for only windows/mac would make it big enough to get the money to port it to the other systems.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#337

Post by rado »

eloff wrote: post #163
rado wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can an organisation start a Web/Desktop project which can never ever be _good_ (not to mention great) and frustrate and annoy its customers all the time? If native is a mess, how is outsourcing the mess to the user justified?

What's the alternative? Be only on one platform? Not viable today. Implement 5 different apps, usually not viable. The platforms are fragmented and the user pays the costs of that in the end, one way or another. If you hide it by increasing development costs, the price of the app ( or amount of ads or premium only features) must go up to compensate and the user pays the cost as well. Edit: downvote all you like, ther…

Abstract away the core of the product (data, connectivity etc) behind an internal interpreter, which is the same on all platforms and connects to native UI.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#338

Post by rado »

jodrellblank wrote: post #189
chrisseaton wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I want a chat service with native apps But why? 'Native' is a tool, not a goal, surely? What's the underlying goal you want to achieve, and do you really need native to achieve that?

> " What's the underlying goal you want to achieve " Responds to user input quickly enough to not be frustrating.

Yes. Using laggy apps, I don't feel like working, it feels like a struggle, hence frustration.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#339

Post by tluyben2 »

rauchp wrote: post #312
failwhaleshark wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cross-platform development is like communism. An unattainable utopia. There's no "magicking-away" the idiosyncrasies of cross-platform development with abstraction layers. It's simpler to use native tools and go for the best each platform has to offer while keeping the L&F UX as similar as possible.

React Native and (arguably) Flutter are going through a golden age right now. Major companies like Tesla, Coinbase, and Shopify have adopted them, and the developer experience has never been better. I'm not sure why it worked now, but didn't work for Xamarin / Ionic, though.

For Xamarin I would answer that with: Flutter and React native are 'light' on the developer: you get instant feedback. Xamarin, at least when we dropped it 2 years ago, was really slow and, besides c# which we will use on the server, hardly pleasant or light. I think these days, the developer needs a smooth experience (once the tons of crap has been installed and set up, which is why I prefer Flutter over react native) so things that are not that will fall over. I think, after that, comes author influence: so if you take that, you get to RN, Flutter, Xamarin, Ionic if you sort them by EasyOfDev,AuthorInfluence.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#340

Post by skinkestek »

cudgy wrote: post #139
skinkestek wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to people calling or finding me at my desk they are extremely asynchronous. What tool do you suggest for teams?

Simple … email … I choose when/if I will respond on a schedule that I define and My response can be more complete therefore avoiding many of the roundtrips that these tools support and encourage. If someone needs a meeting, they can schedule a meeting from open time that I have provided in my schedule that is shared to my team.

It is what you make of it.

I have tens or hundreds of unread slack messages.

I also know people in the Blackberry era who'd call somelne because they hadn't yet replied to a mail they send a whole 5 minutes ago..!

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