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Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

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Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#211

Post by eloff »

anoncake wrote: post #192
eloff wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative? Be only on one platform? Not viable today. Implement 5 different apps, usually not viable. The platforms are fragmented and the user pays the costs of that in the end, one way or another. If you hide it by increasing development costs, the price of the app ( or amount of ads or premium only features) must go up to compensate and the user pays the cost as well. Edit: downvote all you like, ther…

Microsoft easily has the resources to write 5 chat app UIs.

That's a hopelessly simplisitc way of looking at the situation. Every team at Microsoft has different levels of resources, and some would rather spend those resources improving their product rather than writing and maintaining 5 different versions of the frontend part of their product.

That's typically the smart choice.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#212

Post by simonbarker87 »

zerop wrote: post #194

Going by comments here, I think most people find the Teams awful, then why are companies moving from Slack to MS Teams. Is the cost the main factor?

Yes, you get Teams for free as part of Office 365.

Sadly no one has run an analysis to see how much cost there is in reduced communication because of how bad Teams is.

If it were measurable I bet the cost of teams actually far out weighs the cost of Slack.

I’m leaving my current role in Wednesday and I’m so happy to be leaving Teams behind, I hate it.

I ask if companies are using Teams now when interviewing and it’s a mark in the “cons” column if they are.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#213

Post by AtNightWeCode »

chx wrote: post #76
bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

While Slack displays all your organizations in a single tabbed UI, presenting you with the number of unread messages on the tab icons in Teams you need to hard switch and you never know what happens in the others. This makes Teams worse than nothing in communications because one half of the communication expects you to communicate and you are not even aware of this. You literally must jump organizations constantly ,…

You can't even read stuff from other tenants if you are in a video call. Teams came for free at a lot companies I worked with and all of them have moved back to Slack and many of them are also paying for it.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#214

Post by Someone »

qlm wrote: post #73
xyst wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…

Can somebody explain why "paste with formatting" is so widely the default option? I have literally never wanted to paste with formatting and neither have multiple family members who have needed help with preventing it from happening.

History. The Mac didn’t have “paste without formatting”, and assigned ⌘-V to “paste with formatting”.

Even if it had, they might have made it the default, either to show of that styles copied over, or for consistency. If you paste a picture, you don’t lose formatting, either (of the picture, whatever that means, or any text in the image)

If you copied some text in MacWrite, for example, exited MacWrote, launched MacPaint, and ⌘V-ed into MacPaint, you likely wanted to keep the font, size and style.

Some programs also have several variants of “without formatting”. Excel is a good example (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/paste-options-8ea...). Which one should be the default?

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#216

Post by chx »

AtNightWeCode wrote: post #213
chx wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Slack displays all your organizations in a single tabbed UI, presenting you with the number of unread messages on the tab icons in Teams you need to hard switch and you never know what happens in the others. This makes Teams worse than nothing in communications because one half of the communication expects you to communicate and you are not even aware of this. You literally must jump organizations constantly ,…

You can't even read stuff from other tenants if you are in a video call. Teams came for free at a lot companies I worked with and all of them have moved back to Slack and many of them are also paying for it.

My favorite about video calls is at one of my organizations I am access denied to recordings even when I participated in it. I can't attach images either.

Someone built these features. Why are you building a feature on who can attach images?? The entire mindset is completely wrong and comes from an overcontrolling enterprise mindset completely incompatible with what we expect from a chat tool.

Oh and every time I log in Teams asks whether it can control my entire device. No.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#217

Post by azalemeth »

zerop wrote: post #194

Going by comments here, I think most people find the Teams awful, then why are companies moving from Slack to MS Teams. Is the cost the main factor?

I completely and utterly think it's MS abusing their monopoly position (again). Slack, Zoom, etc, all cost actual hard money.

Microsoft released Teams for effectively for free, paid for by existing (extortionate) subscriptions (that are never in the public domain). Now, despite the product being almost _universally_ hated by its users, it's number one.

Urgh.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#218

Post by kyriakos »

xyst wrote: post #55
bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…

Hack for the character limit is to share as code. Unfortunately that adds 3 clicks to the process.

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#219

Post by ripley12 »

richardstephens wrote: post #50
slashdev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native apps means essentially building at least 5 distinct apps: windows, mac, iOS, linux, android. What a mess to work with and maintain. We already have cross-platfrom UI engines called browsers and they're very advanced and reasonably pleasant to work with these days. If you bundle the browser (electron) then you don't have to worry about differences between browsers. So electron makes plenty of sense to developer…

I see where you're coming from, but Microsoft already builds an entire office sweet as native apps across 4 of the 5 platforms you enumerated.

Outlook is switching to WebView2-based UI like this soon. As for Excel, here's its PM saying "When you look at the overall allocation of resources on the team, a huge percentage is working on web app improvements" https://twitter.com/jones206/status/1388162347059978243?s=20

Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2

#220

Post by uncomputation »

bloopernova wrote: post #44

Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…

My last job used Teams after I had years of experience with Slack and I’m right there with you. I actually enjoy being on Slack and feel like it adds something to the workplace culture (although yes, as many have pointed out before on HN, not everything Slack/real-time team software adds is good). Custom emojis in particular, such a simple thing and yet they really build a channel’s culture. Slack feels fun. Contrast that with Teams, which just feels soulless and corporate and… “angular” is the word that comes to mind. Obviously they are both run for profit, by corporations, for work, but the feel is indescribably different to me. Super grateful my current job uses Slack.
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