Earlier quoted context omitted.
Qt is about as ideal as you can get for cross platform apps. Unfortunately the licensing is an impediment for a lot of usecases.
So, Microsoft should buy Qt then.
Couldn’t they just buy a commercial license?
Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2
111–120 of 359 posts
Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see where you're coming from, but Microsoft already builds an entire office sweet as native apps across 4 of the 5 platforms you enumerated.
Which means they know extremely well what a costly and complex process it is.
And the result of that knowledge is a worse experience for users. However you frame it, users are losing because MS doesn’t want to shell out the cash for good UX.
Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2
#113Native apps or die. I won't use anything based on Atom or Electron.
The reason is that these "cross-platform" applications on top of web browsers are basically complete operating systems emulated on top of the underlying OS. It's worse than turtles all the way down; they're sea urchins: fragile, prickly, and lethargic. And these memory-hogging leviathans multiply faster than rabbits so developers don't have to get their "hands dirty with details" like fast, efficient, proper software.
Just because someone can write a ray-tracer in BrainFuck doesn't mean NVIDIA/AMD/Intel should steer the whole industry to using something impractical because developers get excited about all of the "possibilities."
Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I understand correctly, Telegram has native apps on all platforms, and they are super fast and slick.
They are the one example of messaging done right on the client side. And it maddens me that their whole team, including ops and backend is like 50 people. At the same time, they used some pretty unconventional ways to find brilliant people. For example, for iOS and Mac and android apps, they simply held a contest for the best open source app fitting succinct and reasonable requirements. The winner got sizable prize a…
Yep Telegram the app is perhaps one of the best pieces of software I have used. It really shows what a good team can pull off.
Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2
#115Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…
I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…
>Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”
That's just Microsoft.
I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've wanted to actually retain source formatting. But, it's the default option on almost any microsoft product out there. And, apparently, on Teams it's not an option at all.
Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…
Can somebody explain why "paste with formatting" is so widely the default option? I have literally never wanted to paste with formatting and neither have multiple family members who have needed help with preventing it from happening.
I imagine it stems from Powerpoint or Word. If I move bolded header text from the bottom of the page to the top of the page, it would be irritating to re-apply formatting. Once you have established this precedent, easy for it to infect the rest of the ecosystem.
Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2
#117Not really relevant but I need to vent. Client dropped Slack for Teams. I hate it, and information exchange has dropped precipitously since everyone switched. So slow, half the time text markup doesn't work, and the UI is inconsistent depending on if you're typing in a chat, meeting, or channel. Oh and none of the Slack logs were kept, losing years of information. (But that's not the fault of the Teams software) I lo…
I agree with this. Also how can they forget an option to “paste without formatting”? Copying stuff from other sources is extremely painful. At this point, I leave it as is. I don’t have time to micromanage each copy and paste. Also teams has this arbitrary message character limit that makes it terrible for sharing large chunks of text (partial logs for example). While the integrations with outlook (mail/scheduling) +…
Ctrl+shift V... How about where's reply to a specific message on a desktop/web app? Isn't that like the basest of the basics? Audio and video quality is great however, millions of times ahead of Slack and a bit better than Zoom, but ever so slightly, from my experience.
Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2
#118As if Electron is the actual problem hay. I am forced to have this junk running on my work PC at all times. As far as I know, everyone hates it. I only know a couple of people who like it and I definitely don't value their input since we disagree on pretty much everything I know Discord is supposed to be for gamers but I've only used it for work and it's hands down the best thing out there
It seems to me that Electron is a scapegoat here - VS Code is built on Electron and is super snappy and responsive for me, even on large projects. This means two things:
1. Even complex Electron apps can be performant and responsive
2. Microsoft as a company has people that know how to make this happen.
The reality is (speaking as a former MSFT employee) that the Teams and VSCode orgs are so far separated that they might as well be in different companies. The average quality of devs and their respective management chains varies WILDLY across organizations, and given how shitty Teams has been and continues to be, I think it's fair to say one or both of these factors is at play here.
Re: Microsoft Teams 2 will use half the memory, dropping Electron for Edge Webview2
#119Drop Electron.... for Edge Webview2. I mean, okay sure, half the memory is an improvement. But what is going on in the chat industry that everyone's converged on Electron? You'd think Microsoft of all companies would be able to figure out how to build native apps. If I want a chat service with native apps, it seems like my only option is IRC.
> If I want a chat service with native apps But why? 'Native' is a tool, not a goal, surely? What's the underlying goal you want to achieve, and do you really need native to achieve that?
Native is not a tool, nor a goal. Native is an implication of a user experience and performance. Very few non-native applications provide the same experience and performance as native applications (although there are exceptions and it's not always black and white).
"Native" is the implication that a certain level of comformity is present: the user generally gets an experience that is similar to other native applications.
As you develop with native APIs, and when you follow the best practices for the platform, you end up with a product where the UX is much easier to grasp for the user. Non-native solutions very often have different UI/UX patterns, which leads to users having to learn these patterns before the application becomes understood by them.