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AWS BugBust

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Re: AWS BugBust

#61

Post by slownews45 »

isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #23
mdaniel wrote: post #13

When I read the announcement, I thought they were donating the use of CodeGuru to projects (which I presumed would be limited to open source ones) to (1) improve the code hygiene of the world (2) gather more data for their machine learning models (3) publicity for CodeGuru But as best I can tell, this is the worst of all worlds: I have to already have an AWS account to both create the competition and also to point Co…

Quite frankly I've never seen people use AWS offerings for CI pipelines, I wonder if other products (Code* family) are any good - can anyone comment on them? I've only used CodeCommit once during a hackathon, and it seemed rather basic.

Unfortunately surprisingly poor in quality!

You can get much better results almost anywhere else.

Re: AWS BugBust

#62

Post by pyjug »

jedberg wrote: post #57
pyjug wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The risk to the company is pretty low that their employee would show up on a global leaderboard. This invalidates your other point that it benefits developers. Why would a dev sink countless hours for a “very low” chance at being on the global leaderboard and hence moving jobs. You can’t simultaneously posit it’s good for both companies and developers.

> This invalidates your other point that it benefits developers. Not at all. The company undervalues their employee and sees little risk in them showing up on the board, and the employee overvalues their skill, thinking that showing up on the leaderboard is a shoo-in. Maybe the employer is right, maybe the employee is right, or maybe both or neither is right. Also, the employee does it because they get paid to hunt b…

> the employee overvalues their skill, thinking that showing up on the leaderboard is a shoo-in. Maybe the employer is right, maybe the employee is right,

Come on, this is just being coy — you and I both know this is a terrible deal for employees — as you write earlier, there’s a very low chance that a random dev will appear on the global leaderboard. What’s more, the best devs won’t even play this game, so it’s left for juniors and people trying to “prove themselves” to trample over each other for peanuts.

Not to single you out, but I wish influential tech folks like you would speak up more about the cynical exploitation that’s going on here in plain sight.

Re: AWS BugBust

#63

Post by whoisjuan »

This is so hard to understand. It seems like a service to create fixatons or bug bashing events in you org, but they also say it's a global competition (?)

I fail to understand the value of this. Seems to me like they want you to use and pay for CodeGuru, which will tell you shit about your codebase. Then you can import those issues into some sort of campaign inside this BugBust thing so you can create competitions and as you do it you compete with other teams around the world from other companies(?)

If that's what it is, then this sounds like an idea created in a vacuum, with no customer input at all. I fail to see any value on this.

Re: AWS BugBust

#64

Post by pja »

St-Clock wrote: post #18
danpalmer wrote: post #3

Has anyone had a positive experience with Code Guru? All I've seen so far is that it's _very_ expensive, and provides the sort of feedback I expect from open-source linters and static-analyzers, and without any understanding of how appropriate those recommendations might be in context. I've only really seen it for Python though, maybe it's better for other languages?

We had similar experience! We tried CodeGuru Reviewer on one of our Python codebases (around 71 KLOC) and abandoned it after a week. The feedback was indeed similar to what standard linters and static analyzers can provide with more noise. I have no doubt they can improve their recommendations as they get more feedback and analyze more codebases, but we were not interested to pay to contribute. We have had much more…

How did it compare with more “traditional” code analysis linters like Coverity or Semmle?

Re: AWS BugBust

#65

Post by jedberg »

pyjug wrote: post #62
jedberg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This invalidates your other point that it benefits developers. Not at all. The company undervalues their employee and sees little risk in them showing up on the board, and the employee overvalues their skill, thinking that showing up on the leaderboard is a shoo-in. Maybe the employer is right, maybe the employee is right, or maybe both or neither is right. Also, the employee does it because they get paid to hunt b…

> the employee overvalues their skill, thinking that showing up on the leaderboard is a shoo-in. Maybe the employer is right, maybe the employee is right, Come on, this is just being coy — you and I both know this is a terrible deal for employees — as you write earlier, there’s a very low chance that a random dev will appear on the global leaderboard. What’s more, the best devs won’t even play this game, so it’s left…

I'm not sure where the exploitation is. The developers are already getting paid to fix bugs. Now they have some structure and added incentives.

Re: AWS BugBust

#66

Post by the_arun »

theli0nheart wrote: post #44
jedberg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The companies that put up the contest benefits. For a lot of people at a lot of companies, a trip to re:invent is a huge prize. If your job is to fix bugs anyway, now your company just incentivized you to do it more and in your off time to win that prize. Also, the bug buster benefits if they get up high on the leaderboard, because job recruiters will most likely use the leaderboard for lead gen. If you're looking to…

> Also, the bug buster benefits if they get up high on the leaderboard, because job recruiters will most likely use the leaderboard for lead gen. If you're looking to make a job move, moving up on the leaderboard will help. I already get plenty of recruiting inbound without having to donate my time to fix bugs for Internet Points. What you're saying is that this is a worthy use of time for people because they'll mayb…

Why bug leaderboard is important? Don't I have few ways already to showcase my profile?

1. Stackoverflow to show my expertise

2. Any Open source contribution that shows up in my github profile

Re: AWS BugBust

#67

Post by ARandumGuy »

slownews45 wrote: post #60
theli0nheart wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, the bug buster benefits if they get up high on the leaderboard, because job recruiters will most likely use the leaderboard for lead gen. If you're looking to make a job move, moving up on the leaderboard will help. I already get plenty of recruiting inbound without having to donate my time to fix bugs for Internet Points. What you're saying is that this is a worthy use of time for people because they'll mayb…

How are you employed if you won't fix bugs. These types of devs are so annoying to be around. Crank out weird esoteric hard to read code using every weird meta feature / reflections / introspections they can. Then "hard pass" on fixing bugs as a waste of time. You do realize most developers are asked to fix bugs anyways, regardless of any silly competition? Their pitch to Organizations is that 1) They may be able to…

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how this works, this isn't "give you some perks for doing your job." It's getting perks for doing your job, for someone who isn't paying you. And that's what the problem is.

If you want me to fix your bugs, pay me for it. Don't do this gamification nonsense.

Edit: apparently I did misunderstand how this works. It seems like the "Bugbusters" are just a company's normal developers. It still seems kinda dumb, but not as exploitative as I initially thought.

Re: AWS BugBust

#68

Post by aledalgrande »

dvtrn wrote: post #45
WYepQ4dNnG wrote: post #31

Maybe a little off-topic. You wanna solve or avoid millions bugs? Instead of hiring people capable of memorizing how to invert binary trees and similar bs, companies when interviewing and hiring should focus on real hands-on experience, should value developers who empower and demostrate best practices and good code craftsmanship. Ask candidates to write and review real production code. It is just unbelievable how low…

Ask candidates to write and review real production code. Presumably you pay candidates for this, right, if we're talking about "real production code" and valuing developers?

There are companies that pay for your interview work, I think DuckDuckGo is one of them.

Re: AWS BugBust

#69

Post by WYepQ4dNnG »

dvtrn wrote: post #45
WYepQ4dNnG wrote: post #31

Maybe a little off-topic. You wanna solve or avoid millions bugs? Instead of hiring people capable of memorizing how to invert binary trees and similar bs, companies when interviewing and hiring should focus on real hands-on experience, should value developers who empower and demostrate best practices and good code craftsmanship. Ask candidates to write and review real production code. It is just unbelievable how low…

Ask candidates to write and review real production code. Presumably you pay candidates for this, right, if we're talking about "real production code" and valuing developers?

it does not take much, I usually ask candidates on-site, to review real production PR. I would also keep around pieces of real production code and ask the candidate to either fill in additional/missing functionalities, or ask them what changes/tests if any they would implement and why.

Basically testing real day-to-day job. If you were to work in this company and you were given this task, how would you approach it?

You can easily tell which people care, strive for good practices and who have high quality standards vs the ones who tend to just hack things together.

It worked well for me, and never regretted any hiring.

Re: AWS BugBust

#70

Post by jedberg »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #67
slownews45 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you employed if you won't fix bugs. These types of devs are so annoying to be around. Crank out weird esoteric hard to read code using every weird meta feature / reflections / introspections they can. Then "hard pass" on fixing bugs as a waste of time. You do realize most developers are asked to fix bugs anyways, regardless of any silly competition? Their pitch to Organizations is that 1) They may be able to…

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how this works, this isn't "give you some perks for doing your job." It's getting perks for doing your job, for someone who isn't paying you. And that's what the problem is. If you want me to fix your bugs, pay me for it. Don't do this gamification nonsense. Edit: apparently I did misunderstand how this works. It seems like the "Bugbusters" are just a company's normal developers…

They're marketing page isn't super clear, but it's adding structure for a company's existing bug bashes. You set up a bug hung for your own developers on your own code.
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