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Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

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Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#121
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They see the writing on the wall. Big Auto is going to dominate electric vehicles. Take the Ford F-150 as one example. https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/

I don't think big cars are representative outside the US. Eg. In Europe, you would have a lot of problems with parking it.

It's not about the size of the car.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#122
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not. Stop trolling or go learn financial slang. It is not hard, you can google it. I worked on an exchange and currently with trading systems for one of the largest banks in the world.

I mean, yeah, but at the same time, stocks are different from inventory because they ( can ) appreciate in value. Inventory in a store depreciates over time. There are two and a half reasons to sell a stock: because you need the cash, or because you think the stock has stopped appreciating and will depreciate going forward. Once a stock has become a depreciating asset it's really no different than the bedroom set tha…

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Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#123
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They see the writing on the wall. Big Auto is going to dominate electric vehicles. Take the Ford F-150 as one example. https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/

I don't think big cars are representative outside the US. Eg. In Europe, you would have a lot of problems with parking it.

GP's "Big Auto" isn't about large vehicles, but about the larger and more established auto industry (Ford, VW, etc.). The F-150 just happens to be a particularly notable and recent example of an electric vehicle that seems to be particularly competently done (versus earlier efforts) out of one of those Big Auto companies. A sign that they may have finally learned how to target that side of the market.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you completely exit a winning trade that you have more insight into than most people since you’re the sole supplier of the primary component in the thing if you thought it was going to have a higher ROI than other investments? … you wouldn’t.

Unless you think investing in yourself is better than investing in other companies.

Yes, they may feel they need to fund more research to stay ahead of the competition and keep the contracts they are currently getting rather than lose them. Maybe the future profits from staying ahead of the pack (or close) are worth more than the expected future growth of their Tesla stock over the current value.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#125
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah "dumping" a winning trade isn't dumping. It's taking profits to move onto other investments.

Why would you completely exit a winning trade that you have more insight into than most people since you’re the sole supplier of the primary component in the thing if you thought it was going to have a higher ROI than other investments? … you wouldn’t.

At "Battery Day", Tesla alluded to their plans to make their organization more vertically integrated: Lithium mining, battery production, and new vehicle designs that incorporate their own cells directly into the vehicle structure [1].

It has been reported in the press that Tesla will (likely) move away from Panasonic as a vendor [2]. Panasonic probably sees this as a good reason to divest and focus on future customers. From [2]:

> Tesla will continue buying batteries from longtime Japanese supplier Panasonic until at least 2022 despite the U.S. electric vehicle maker's plans to produce its own cheaper alternative.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6T9xIeZTds

[2] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Tesla-strikes-ne...

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#126
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at Norway and the Netherlands which seem to have a 2-3 year lead on EV adoption. Volkswagen brands have already surpassed Tesla sales there. Tesla makes a terrific product and they single handedly provoked that change we are seeing now. However, the German and Korean brands make great cars too. Given the choice I would trade good build quality, some more physical buttons and a quiet cabin at highway speeds…

They are catching up, but currently the VW and other EVs, with the exception of Porsche, are pretty inferior. (A notable exception is Hyundai's Ioniq5, which is very impressive). My biggest concern with other auto manufacturers EV projects is how absolutely abysmal these companies are at building software. It's just not even close. And software makes a HUGE difference with EVs. My wife's Audi has absolute shit softwa…

> My biggest concern with other auto manufacturers EV projects is how absolutely abysmal these companies are at building software. It's just not even close. And software makes a HUGE difference with EVs. My wife's Audi has absolute shit software.

A few years ago I read some forum posts from someone who claimed to be an ex-Tesla engineer that basically said Tesla was pretty bad at building software too. They're probably just better at making the UI seem shiny.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#127
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People said this 3 years ago too, arguing Tesla was too big. guess what: it got way bigger. Tesla is forcing other brands to have to adapt or die. They are way behind Tesla in technology, infrastructure, and marketshare for electric vehicle and battery tech.

BMWs next electric cars will have batteries with zero (!) rare minerals, they are on the way to produce cars with renewable energy and they can recycle 96% of their batteries, just not the thermoplastic. There is much more they are doing. Where they forced to adapt? Yes, they weren't at the forefront. But they are taking huge leaps forward. All that while providing, well, the quality of a german car. I drove a model…

> while providing, well, the quality of a german car

So half the electronics will be broken in five years.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#128
post #69

Can anyone explain how Tesla can be valued so high? They're valued twice as high as Toyota at around 1/12 the profits of Toyota. P/E is almost 600 so they'd have to overtake Toyota's profits by a significant margin to justify their valuation. So far this looks like pure hype. However... they are way ahead in terms of technology in a number of areas and I guess they could also make money from things like their super c…

Yeah, valuations also bake in expectations of future earnings. Beyond normal expectations, growth stocks like this and tech companies get big multiples. My theory is that retail investors behavior is more like angel investors with tech companies now. My guess on the valuation right now is that a huge amount of people think Tesla becomes the worlds largest car company and redefines the industry. I mean, they kind of a…

I don't really believe in Musk and Tesla, but I'm not a bear (I have no idea what direction retail investors will take it), and I respect Tesla for proving that lithium ion batteries are viable for powering cars. The rest of what Tesla does is over-promise, under-deliver, sloppy manufacturing, dangerous, experimental products, and a dream.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not entirely wrong, but Tesla (and a small SpaceX investment via funds) is the closest most people can come to investing in Musk personally. Wouldn’t you invest in someone who is obsessed and will strive at all costs to succeed? And how is this any different than accelerators like YC investing in founders vs business ideas? The “eccentricity” for lack of a better word is the symptom of his underlying drive, so…

> And how is this any different than accelerators like YC investing in founders vs business ideas? VC funds are (1) diversified, so it’s less risky — their success or failure isn’t tied to any one persona or even any one company, (2) fund investors have a lot of money so they can afford it if their entire investment goes to zero, and (3) the investors are well-versed in assessing the likelihood of that risk when they…

Fair points. I'm unsure how to protect retail more without handicapping those who know what they're doing. Taking away exposure opportunity from retail isn't going to help, but neither does encouraging gambling (although that's what investments are, educated gambles). Musk is exploiting an edge case, but I'm unsure if I can blame him for it based on how it's turned out.

Don't invest (or gamble) what you can't afford to lose on high risk investments. Index funds are your friend.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#130
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People said this 3 years ago too, arguing Tesla was too big. guess what: it got way bigger. Tesla is forcing other brands to have to adapt or die. They are way behind Tesla in technology, infrastructure, and marketshare for electric vehicle and battery tech.

BMWs next electric cars will have batteries with zero (!) rare minerals, they are on the way to produce cars with renewable energy and they can recycle 96% of their batteries, just not the thermoplastic. There is much more they are doing. Where they forced to adapt? Yes, they weren't at the forefront. But they are taking huge leaps forward. All that while providing, well, the quality of a german car. I drove a model…

I would say VW AG is leading the charge among the germans, especially considering the volume of cars the group sells as a whole. The ID.4, the Buzz, the Audi E-tron lineup and the Porsche Taycan, just to start. VW group also has a long history of racing hybrid vehicles, and I'm looking forward to seeing more and more racing classes move to hybrids. But i digress.

Agreed that MB is the laggard and that Tesla quality is poor.

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