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Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

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Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#111

Post by CyanLite2 »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #92
avelis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah "dumping" a winning trade isn't dumping. It's taking profits to move onto other investments.

Why would you completely exit a winning trade that you have more insight into than most people since you’re the sole supplier of the primary component in the thing if you thought it was going to have a higher ROI than other investments? … you wouldn’t.

Or they take the $3b and plow it back into R&D and factories so they can serve as suppliers to the other Big Auto companies who are dying for battery suppliers.

Or the most likely case, they're tired of Elon's schtick and they can take their technology elsewhere.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#112

Post by dehrmann »

TX0098812 wrote: post #35

Can anyone explain how Tesla can be valued so high? They're valued twice as high as Toyota at around 1/12 the profits of Toyota. P/E is almost 600 so they'd have to overtake Toyota's profits by a significant margin to justify their valuation. So far this looks like pure hype. However... they are way ahead in terms of technology in a number of areas and I guess they could also make money from things like their super c…

Tesla's primary product is Elon Musk, and people want to be a part of that story.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#113

Post by toomuchtodo »

elliekelly wrote: post #102
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it got way bigger. It's still unclear whether this is due to fundamentals like the ones you mention, or just an irrational stock market. Now that more and more companies are coming out with their EVs, the truth might become clearer.

I think you have to ask whether Tesla would have the same or similar valuation in any of the following circumstances: - If literally anyone else were CEO. - If Musk hadn’t used twitter to gather a cult-like following of people who idolize him, think the tech is cool, and can’t afford a Tesla but can afford a few shares of the stock. - If Musk hadn’t repeatedly inserted himself into the WSB “meme stock” & crypto count…

You’re not entirely wrong, but Tesla (and a small SpaceX investment via funds) is the closest most people can come to investing in Musk personally. Wouldn’t you invest in someone who is obsessed and will strive at all costs to succeed? And how is this any different than accelerators like YC investing in founders vs business ideas? The “eccentricity” for lack of a better word is the symptom of his underlying drive, so if you want the returns you take the good with the crazy.

I wouldn’t work for Musk (to protect quality of life and mental health), but absolutely would sink all of my high risk allocated capital directly into him as a person. Obsessed people get shit done.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#114

Post by [deleted] »

lmilcin wrote: post #88
codeulike wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So selling = dumping? Edit: ok so dumping=selling the whole lot I guess that makes sense. I think this post explained it better https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27633163

No it is not. Stop trolling or go learn financial slang. It is not hard, you can google it. I worked on an exchange and currently with trading systems for one of the largest banks in the world.

[deleted]

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#115

Post by NicoJuicy »

_wldu wrote: post #103
foobarbazetc wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you completely exit a winning trade that you have more insight into than most people since you’re the sole supplier of the primary component in the thing if you thought it was going to have a higher ROI than other investments? … you wouldn’t.

They see the writing on the wall. Big Auto is going to dominate electric vehicles. Take the Ford F-150 as one example. https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/

I don't think big cars are representative outside the US.

Eg. In Europe, you would have a lot of problems with parking it.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#116

Post by groby_b »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #92
avelis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah "dumping" a winning trade isn't dumping. It's taking profits to move onto other investments.

Why would you completely exit a winning trade that you have more insight into than most people since you’re the sole supplier of the primary component in the thing if you thought it was going to have a higher ROI than other investments? … you wouldn’t.

First rule of watching the stock markets: Sales mean little. Watch who buys things, because that indicates actual interest.

Sales might be liquidity questions, rebalancing, any number of issues.

So, what's Panasonic doing that indicates their interest? Turns out, they have a Toyota partnership. Panasonic is trying to get into the European market. Panasonic formed a partnership in Norway to build batteries.

So, most likely that sale is a signal that a) Panasonic is ready to get deeply into the battery business, and b) a signal to their other customers that they don't have conflicting interests.

(I mean, yes, Tesla is also a bad deal, but the market still disagrees)

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#117

Post by handmodel »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #111
foobarbazetc wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you completely exit a winning trade that you have more insight into than most people since you’re the sole supplier of the primary component in the thing if you thought it was going to have a higher ROI than other investments? … you wouldn’t.

Or they take the $3b and plow it back into R&D and factories so they can serve as suppliers to the other Big Auto companies who are dying for battery suppliers. Or the most likely case, they're tired of Elon's schtick and they can take their technology elsewhere.

I think this is the right move for shareholders if their stake becomes big enough and doesn't serve a strategic value.

If I own Panasonic stock - but 10% of the value is wrapped up in Tesla's value - what's the point? Its better for everyone if they sell and if I want I can then invest some of my own in Tesla. Unless we see Panasonic as Warren Buffet what's the point?

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#118

Post by elliekelly »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #113
elliekelly wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have to ask whether Tesla would have the same or similar valuation in any of the following circumstances: - If literally anyone else were CEO. - If Musk hadn’t used twitter to gather a cult-like following of people who idolize him, think the tech is cool, and can’t afford a Tesla but can afford a few shares of the stock. - If Musk hadn’t repeatedly inserted himself into the WSB “meme stock” & crypto count…

You’re not entirely wrong, but Tesla (and a small SpaceX investment via funds) is the closest most people can come to investing in Musk personally. Wouldn’t you invest in someone who is obsessed and will strive at all costs to succeed? And how is this any different than accelerators like YC investing in founders vs business ideas? The “eccentricity” for lack of a better word is the symptom of his underlying drive, so…

> And how is this any different than accelerators like YC investing in founders vs business ideas?

VC funds are (1) diversified, so it’s less risky — their success or failure isn’t tied to any one persona or even any one company, (2) fund investors have a lot of money so they can afford it if their entire investment goes to zero, and (3) the investors are well-versed in assessing the likelihood of that risk when they make the investment. The same cannot be said for the average Joe who’s a fan of Musk and has $2,500 in their Robinhood account.

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#119

Post by [deleted] »

CreepGin wrote: post #90
Aperocky wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe market share, but I can't see how the argument goes for technology or infrastructure. As of now, none of the auto-driving tech is acceptable to go hands free, people have tried it and paid with their lives. The only difference between Tesla and traditional companies is that Tesla didn't seem to mind people testing unproven techs with their lives while the other manufacturers are more restrictive.

Your comment reminds of me of this. If in the future medicines/technologies are invented to get rid of people's impulses to hurt one another (as in Stanislaw Lem's Return from the Stars), but in doing so, people also lost the impulse to take risks, would you be for or against such technology? Neither side is wrong. Anyhow, I think it's a well-known fact that Tesla's rise is due to their innovation in both hardware an…

[deleted]

Re: Panasonic sells its $3.6B Tesla stake

#120

Post by bserge »

CreepGin wrote: post #90
Aperocky wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe market share, but I can't see how the argument goes for technology or infrastructure. As of now, none of the auto-driving tech is acceptable to go hands free, people have tried it and paid with their lives. The only difference between Tesla and traditional companies is that Tesla didn't seem to mind people testing unproven techs with their lives while the other manufacturers are more restrictive.

Your comment reminds of me of this. If in the future medicines/technologies are invented to get rid of people's impulses to hurt one another (as in Stanislaw Lem's Return from the Stars), but in doing so, people also lost the impulse to take risks, would you be for or against such technology? Neither side is wrong. Anyhow, I think it's a well-known fact that Tesla's rise is due to their innovation in both hardware an…

Taking risks on impulse is just gambling. Taking risks after considering all of the known factors and estimating the unknown is logic.
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