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Burnout Is Real

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Re: Burnout Is Real

#181

Post by josefresco »

andkon wrote: post #165
josefresco wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you skeptical because it seems too good to be true that he might actually enjoy it? No, I think it's based on the following: -I suspect he doesn't "need" this job to survive. Well off people who can afford to change careers (by choice) love to tell you how to build a new business/career when there's no real pressure. -I am tired of hearing about "Google Ads" overnight successes (to be fair he didn't claim exact…

lolll I feel you. It's really hard to tell the difference between the Guy Raz kinda story you describe, and stories where someone really did find a better life for themselves where things really are better. They all just sound like hagiography. And often, the story has the role of persuading the person telling it that they made a good call, because... change is scary. Anyway, I think you're right or at least fair to…

Along with upvoting I just wanted to say thank you. Your comment was kind (given my raging), thoughtful and informative (hagiography is now in MY lexicon!)

Edit (sorry can't help myself)

I used to IM chat daily with a buddy of mine also in tech. One particularly bad day I told him I wanted to quit and "bag groceries" instead.

He replied that what he loves about tech freelancing is that when things get really bad he can always take 5 minutes, look up some porn and then go back to work. He's a funny guy and it was intended as a throw-away joke, but his statement really stuck with me. While I do envision a future outside of tech for me I'm also VERY thankful for my current work environment and lifestyle. And before you ask, I work with my wife so... no porn breaks for me!

Re: Burnout Is Real

#182

Post by _y5hn »

nudpiedo wrote: post #156
culopatin wrote: post #120

I don’t know how to frame this well and I apologize in advance. But I think this idea of “oh wow burnout is real I’m so woke” is a privileged person problem. I don’t mean that burnout is a first world problem, but that this “Burnout is real” is. I struggle to put my head in a place where I can be amazed that burnout is real and that I have to warn others of this “thing” as if it’s not part of millions of people’s liv…

It is not a privileged person problem. People in less favorable positions or countries also deal with depression and when not treated properly they may abandon themselves, release the tensions from such life against someone nearby (look at the rates of family abuse in countries that are economically depressed, like ex-Soviet union). Some people even commit suicide like we saw Indian farmers who couldn’t fulfill their…

I find it ironic: Complaining about "wokeness", and then complaining about privilege.

We can think deeper than this surely.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#183

Post by armchairhacker »

culopatin wrote: post #120

I don’t know how to frame this well and I apologize in advance. But I think this idea of “oh wow burnout is real I’m so woke” is a privileged person problem. I don’t mean that burnout is a first world problem, but that this “Burnout is real” is. I struggle to put my head in a place where I can be amazed that burnout is real and that I have to warn others of this “thing” as if it’s not part of millions of people’s liv…

I agree most people understand that burnout is real. And the fact that even those working 35-hour weeks making 6-figures get burnt out, makes it clear that people working 60-hour weeks making near-minimum wage have it much worse.

But it still makes sense to spread the message. Because even those blue-collar workers may work more efficient and effective if they weren't so burnt-out. Burnout isn't necessarily just a problem for employees.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#184

Post by ChipSkylark »

Personal take/rant/experience:

I fell in love with programming because I didn't give a shit about maintainability, architectural considerations, stressing vulns or holding a pager all night to support a living computer system. I learned how to code and got the degree because of how much fun it was every day as a beginner - growing, learning something new and exciting, feverishly building new things to show my friends and use for myself.

I hate to bring a cloud over this profession but I recently left engineering completely because of my depression and how harmful these ways of thinking can be to a person in the long run: modeling everything an equation/stats model, applying worst case scenario visualization and planning to everything you do, risk analysis and limiting your downside by covering every base, preventing you from going all-in on your dreams and enjoying the reward from the risk. You're basically being paid to be paranoid and to think and act like a computer all the fscking time.

Not everything can or should be quantified, and your value as a person and the relationships you have to others are not math equations or statistical models. The incredible beauty and magic of the human experience exist outside these modes, and can be found in your relationship with people, your feelings and emotions, and the freedom to follow your nose and truly embrace things that are meaningful and fulfilling to you.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#185

Post by lancemurdock »

culopatin wrote: post #120

I don’t know how to frame this well and I apologize in advance. But I think this idea of “oh wow burnout is real I’m so woke” is a privileged person problem. I don’t mean that burnout is a first world problem, but that this “Burnout is real” is. I struggle to put my head in a place where I can be amazed that burnout is real and that I have to warn others of this “thing” as if it’s not part of millions of people’s liv…

I seriously wish I could never hear the word the "privilege" again. Its an extremely spiteful mechanism to tear people down.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#186

Post by gfe8ygighjb7 »

culopatin wrote: post #140
gfe8ygighjb7 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked in retail, dealt with some of the rudest people. Sometimes, I still get angry about it. But my job satisfaction was certainly higher back then. At the end of day, I was tired but I didn't had to think of work anymore. Sure I met some assholes, but I also met some great people, some are still my friends. Other jobs I had were tutoring, security guard, IT helpdesk. All these jobs had higher satisfaction a…

Don’t you think that now that you’re not struggling to make ends meet you have more time and have the freedom to think about these things? I went from working 16hs and never being home paid 10/hr to a cushy 8hr job where I am mostly working on my personal projects and I can’t wait to get out. But I’m not going to go out there and say “burnout is real” because I remember that back then I didn’t have a choice and I was…

> Don’t you think that now that you’re not struggling to make ends meet you have more time and have the freedom to think about these things?

I don't disagree with this point. In a way, it is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

Now that I am re-reading your original post, maybe I misunderstood you initially. Sticking with Maslow's theme, I suppose you are saying that someone declaring "burnout is real" is same as someone who has never been hungry, experiences their first hunger and then declares that "hunger is real". Yes it sounds silly.

And yes there are billions of people who do same mind numbing boring jobs all their lives, and they probably are suffering from burnout too. They just don't go out and say it.

But how can we improve their lives if no one talks about it. Some of lower needs have immediate consequences, and no one needs convincing that it is real. Now that majority of humans don't need to worry about food and shelter, we probably should start discussing next needs in hierarchy.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#187

Post by culopatin »

nudpiedo wrote: post #156
culopatin wrote: post #120

I don’t know how to frame this well and I apologize in advance. But I think this idea of “oh wow burnout is real I’m so woke” is a privileged person problem. I don’t mean that burnout is a first world problem, but that this “Burnout is real” is. I struggle to put my head in a place where I can be amazed that burnout is real and that I have to warn others of this “thing” as if it’s not part of millions of people’s liv…

It is not a privileged person problem. People in less favorable positions or countries also deal with depression and when not treated properly they may abandon themselves, release the tensions from such life against someone nearby (look at the rates of family abuse in countries that are economically depressed, like ex-Soviet union). Some people even commit suicide like we saw Indian farmers who couldn’t fulfill their…

You clearly misread my second paragraph.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#188

Post by Trasmatta »

josefresco wrote: post #105
andkon wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you skeptical because it seems too good to be true that he might actually enjoy it? Honestly, i think I understand what he’s saying. I started doing some barback work - basically keeping the bar moving - after being in tech for a decade. It’s way more fun. The bartender I’ve worked with also used to work in tech. And honestly, the money can be good, too. Turns out you don’t need to spend as much just to get yours…

> Are you skeptical because it seems too good to be true that he might actually enjoy it? No, I think it's based on the following: -I suspect he doesn't "need" this job to survive. Well off people who can afford to change careers (by choice) love to tell you how to build a new business/career when there's no real pressure. -I am tired of hearing about "Google Ads" overnight successes (to be fair he didn't claim exact…

It's basically the LinkedIn formula that fills up like 90% of everybody's LinkedIn feed these days:

* Talk about something intensely personal to show yourself being vulnerable (note: making it a true story is optional)

* Describe a moral of the story that fits in with whatever the current popular narrative is

* Plug your side business

It's a pretty good formula for going viral, so I can't really blame anyone that uses it as a marketing tool.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#189

Post by creaghpatr »

ChipSkylark wrote: post #184

Personal take/rant/experience: I fell in love with programming because I didn't give a shit about maintainability, architectural considerations, stressing vulns or holding a pager all night to support a living computer system. I learned how to code and got the degree because of how much fun it was every day as a beginner - growing, learning something new and exciting, feverishly building new things to show my friends…

I empathize with this. My job is to package analytics and build forecasting models and if the data shows anything less than stellar it becomes super stressful to try and dress it up and contextualize for management. [Proverbially] shooting the messenger is a real phenomenon and no one likes the "actually things are looking bad" guy.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#190

Post by runawaybottle »

testfrequency wrote: post #168
mosburger wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG you've nailed exactly what I've been feeling for the past six months or so. :/

Not going to advocate that this is the answer for everyone, but what I thought was burnout for me - turned out I had severe anxiety, depression, and ADHD. I'm on medication now, going through therapy, and still at my current gig doing better than ever. So, what I want to say is that if you are concerned you are burnt out - it's very possible work is burning you out, but it's also possible to seek treatment before mak…

Can we please not devolve every discussion about natural human behavior into ‘you must have adhd, get meds’. It’s standard pressure and human centric fear of failure around business expectations where those around you may or not give a flying fuck about your efforts. Thus, the pressure feels unfulfilling and driven by fear. It’s not always rocket science.
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