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Burnout Is Real

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Re: Burnout Is Real

#131
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't have any other interest at all. Programming is the greatest thing; you only need a computer (old/new/don't care) to Create New Things. I never did programming for the money; it accidentally made (a lot) of money. After covid + a horrible project last year, it seems I did kind of burnt out and after thinking almost 40 years that programming is the thing that keeps me happy, I don't like it anymore. Luckily, m…

Experience wise I am far behind with just 12 years of programming but started feeling burnout since Covid. I was always work in office location guy even if it meant to stretch by more than 12 hours a day. But working from home is far different. Communication is worst. When in office your colleagues are next to you and meetings were like 4 hours a day. But with work from home it's very different. To get in touch with…

I have always been remote since I started but it was, for me, more the economic stuff of my clients defaulting and there being this doom and gloom atmosphere.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#132
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you handle this alone or did you find some kind of burnout support group ? Restarting does feel super odd, a kind of lossless loss. I guess biology didn't like falls.

I've been on antidepressants daily and doing therapy weekly. The meds and therapy have helped immensely.

I assume it's one on one therapy ?

Take care

Re: Burnout Is Real

#133

I don’t know how to frame this well and I apologize in advance. But I think this idea of “oh wow burnout is real I’m so woke” is a privileged person problem. I don’t mean that burnout is a first world problem, but that this “Burnout is real” is. I struggle to put my head in a place where I can be amazed that burnout is real and that I have to warn others of this “thing” as if it’s not part of millions of people’s liv…

I have worked in retail, dealt with some of the rudest people. Sometimes, I still get angry about it. But my job satisfaction was certainly higher back then. At the end of day, I was tired but I didn't had to think of work anymore. Sure I met some assholes, but I also met some great people, some are still my friends.

Other jobs I had were tutoring, security guard, IT helpdesk. All these jobs had higher satisfaction and they ended at the end of day.

Now my dev job never really ends, I am constantly thinking about work related problems even while playing with my kids. The stuff that I work (storage) on is used mostly by advertising industry based on our clients. I am not making the world better, just making myself and some people richer. I might be burning out too, not sure if I was in retail for 10+ years, if I would feel same way. But when I worked with older people in retail, none of them ever complained about burn out like we programmers do.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#134
post #8

I never doubted it was real. But I never really understood what it meant until I was deeply depressed and couldn't get up from bed to go to work anymore. Ended up leaving my job at a FANG and taking a year long sabbatical before rejoining the workforce in a lower/less stressful position for a company not on tech. Sometimes it's still depressing to think o took such a hit in my career. Bit when I remember what I felt…

Having been in a similar situation, my sympathies; I've found it to be a very strange sensation. The burnt-out knows exactly what work tasks they need to do, they know that it's easily within their own capabilities, and they (at a conscious level at least) even desperately want to do the tasks to fulfill their professional obligations (or to simply continue getting paid). But the body just will not do it or forcing i…

[deleted]

Re: Burnout Is Real

#135

I don’t know how to frame this well and I apologize in advance. But I think this idea of “oh wow burnout is real I’m so woke” is a privileged person problem. I don’t mean that burnout is a first world problem, but that this “Burnout is real” is. I struggle to put my head in a place where I can be amazed that burnout is real and that I have to warn others of this “thing” as if it’s not part of millions of people’s liv…

I agree somewhat but I think many people in some lower paid jobs aren’t as miserable in them as you might imagine. I’ve met quite a few who are content with them - as the work doesn’t follow them home and has almost no mental game to it. It’s very adjacent to manual labor.

I didn’t start experiencing truly large amounts of job dissatisfaction until I worked in software. Jobs before then were never fantastic but I wasn’t upset like I get now and they never followed me home.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#136
Made this comment elsewhere, but having gone through two of these (one shorter and the recent one much larger), I think the best thing anyone can do for themselves is make a "break glass in case of burnout" plan where they save up margin (money, vacation days, etc) during the good times so that when the famine hits part of the stress isn't the painted-in-corner feeling of "I need a break but have no margin to take one"

Burnout always ends up being your own personal Rubik's cube in terms of what factors are truly causing it, but the solution is always the same - protracted rest - deload and de-stress life as much as possible. In my recent case going down to a part-time schedule helped to add back margin.

Some of it was also eliminating the burden of leadership isolation, cutting back on workout intensity, limiting screen time at night, fixing some health issues, increasing social activity, and doing some counseling for past unresolved issues.

Give yourself that margin and burnout becomes less of this soul-crushing life-altering existental crisis where you end up posting on HN about becoming a monk (or stuck on SSRIs for years) and more about resolving the check-engine light that flashes when your body is telling you it's time to make life changes.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#137
In 2009, I experienced burnout. I had just turned 30 and was doing management consulting for software teams. I thought it was the coolest job in the world at first - people paid to fly me to their dev standup to tell them how to build software better! And although I didn't really have the experience necessary to be really good at it, I was capable enough to make it work. But after a fear years, I got absolutely burned out.

I thought maybe the problem was that software wasn't the industry for me. I still liked to code, but I just couldn't stomach the idea of being in another standup, having another conversation about how long a sprint should be, or discussion about why some team refuses to track defects effectively. So I decided to leave the software world behind to start a my own business. As fate would have it I ended up spending the next decade building, running, and eventually closing a sporting goods retail business.

I still wrote some code during that time that solved a few of our business needs. That code resulted in real competitive advantages that contributed to our success. And because old habits die hard and it's a useful practice in a variety of circumstances, we even had a standup to start each workday!

The experience of running my own business taught me a lot. I matured over that 10 years. And I gained enough experience and perspective to realize my burnout had nothing to do with writing code or managing software teams and everything to do with understanding what type of work I enjoyed.

I enjoyed building things. I enjoyed the camaraderie of being on a team and sharing in successes and failures with coworkers. But I definitely didn't want to spend all of my days in retail and managing retail personnel. So we closed the retail business and I have been back in software a few years now.

Looking back on why I got burned out in the first place, I realized I stayed on too long at the consulting firm. The money was great, my boss was great, the other consultants were great (although our paths didn't cross very often). But I loathed client work. I loathed never being a part of a team and delivering software. I loathed spending so much effort convincing my client to let me help. I loathed the travel. I loathed spending one day of the week at a client site sitting in their security department waiting for a badge. I loathed airport security lines, shitty airport food, late planes, luggage lines, and rental cars. I loathed cubicle hell. And I conflated all that, to my detriment, with the act of writing software.

Figuring out what really makes me tick has resulted in being as satisfied in a work situation as I've been in my entire career. My current employer isn't perfect. Business is challenging. I don't have enough budget, processes need improving, timelines are too aggressive, and priorities change too often. But now that I know what I enjoy (and what I don't) and have enough breadth of experience to better triage my frustrations. That's made it much easier to find satisfaction and be content.

I hope denvercoder is able to do the same. If he finds out that he's truly satisfied detailing cars and creates a successful business doing so, fantastic. Maybe he finds out it's just another stepping stone on a bigger journey. But as the saying goes, variety is the spice of life. And life is too short not to be happy.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bay Area is ridiculous in terms of home pricing. We could likely move there and do ok financially, but I'd rather get a nice plot of land in Appalachia and have some farm animals, spend my evenings working on marksmanship and whatever car I'm wrenching on at the moment.

Yeah - and WNY is really great in terms of housing costs (I grew up outside of Buffalo). There are trade-offs to that cheaper cost too though. Mostly in terms of job availability (though maybe that's changing with remote work), stuff availability (foods, people), and centralization of knowledgable people in software (not many). Weather. Schools and variety of public opinion was also not great, but that's a problem mo…

> I wouldn't want to raise my kids there though.

Congrats, you found the reason why we're leaving. It's a combination of that, tax rates, and gun laws. Upstate NY doesn't need to suffer for the problems of NYC.

> Mostly in terms of job availability (though maybe that's changing with remote work)

It is. I'm starting a new job in Orlando on Monday.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#139
post #45

Personally, I find the biggest reason for burnout is lack of autonomy. The author seems to have found the same.

For me it was the constant feeling that tasks and responsibilities and difficult decisions are piling up faster than I could process them. Not just "I have too much work to do", but "I have too much work to do and every day it gets worse, and in the morning meeting my team will tell me they all have too much work to do too, and lots of the problems are due to bad tech decisions I took in a hurry a while ago due to in…

> and helped sort things out

How?

Being overloaded for a long time is also sometimes a sign that the business is failing.

Which is horrible: It is when a founder is the most tired that he has to deal with the most unknown part of the work. For a simple project manager, it is often when you miss a deadline that you have to write reports and deal with stakeholder dissatisfaction, which cascades into missing other deadlines and having to implement more and more damage control to perform.

Sometimes the only way is to walk away and let it all crumble.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#140

I don’t know how to frame this well and I apologize in advance. But I think this idea of “oh wow burnout is real I’m so woke” is a privileged person problem. I don’t mean that burnout is a first world problem, but that this “Burnout is real” is. I struggle to put my head in a place where I can be amazed that burnout is real and that I have to warn others of this “thing” as if it’s not part of millions of people’s liv…

I have worked in retail, dealt with some of the rudest people. Sometimes, I still get angry about it. But my job satisfaction was certainly higher back then. At the end of day, I was tired but I didn't had to think of work anymore. Sure I met some assholes, but I also met some great people, some are still my friends. Other jobs I had were tutoring, security guard, IT helpdesk. All these jobs had higher satisfaction a…

Don’t you think that now that you’re not struggling to make ends meet you have more time and have the freedom to think about these things?

I went from working 16hs and never being home paid 10/hr to a cushy 8hr job where I am mostly working on my personal projects and I can’t wait to get out. But I’m not going to go out there and say “burnout is real” because I remember that back then I didn’t have a choice and I was way worse than I am now.

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