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Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#531

Post by romwell »

WalterBright wrote: post #469
sokoloff wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this analogy, the foundation is “the years of schooling the student has already experienced”.

There's no evidence that things for the first year students have improved.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, plus citation needed.

Not to mention that you can only know whether the foundation improved after you build on top of it... which is something we can only observe in the future.

Note that I am not saying that you are incorrect in your assessment. All I am saying is that it's too early to know one way or another.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#532

Post by dctoedt »

rayiner wrote: post #528
dctoedt wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We’re 50 different states that are, in theory, supposed to be quite independent of each other. That ship sailed over the horizon a long time ago, like at the latest with the adoption of the 14th Amendment nearly 150 years ago. When you took the oath to become a lawyer, you didn't swear allegiance to whatever state you happened to be living in at the time. And sociologically, I'd venture that most U.S. citizens thin…

> When you took the oath to become a lawyer, you didn't swear allegiance to whatever state you happened to be living in at the time My New York bar oath says: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York." You don't swear loyalty to the constitution of a mere administrative subdivision. > And sociologically, I'd venture that…

> My New York bar oath says: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York."

Note the order.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#533

Post by tptacek »

ericns wrote: post #511
dctoedt wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We’re 50 different states that are, in theory, supposed to be quite independent of each other. That ship sailed over the horizon a long time ago, like at the latest with the adoption of the 14th Amendment nearly 150 years ago. When you took the oath to become a lawyer, you didn't swear allegiance to whatever state you happened to be living in at the time. And sociologically, I'd venture that most U.S. citizens thin…

Texan's thinking themselves Texan's is bad because it might be a hurdle to further illegitimate concentration of state power to the federal gov't. Looking at your bio, I'd guess your party to the democratic/republican conspiracy to localize government power in Washington, DC via courts and unconstitutional laws (FISA, all drug laws, PATRIOT ACT). You're all ABA (prosecutors, judges, legislators, politicians) and have…

The words "looking at your bio, I'd guess" are so reliably a marker for bad HN comments that I'm a little surprised the site doesn't auto-flag such comments. The guidelines ask you not to write things like this here.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#534

Post by JKCalhoun »

oblio wrote: post #522
JKCalhoun wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. The homeless camps across the United States are no doubt full of people not actually trying.

It's much harder to try anything when you're broken, psychologically.

(Yes, I was being sarcastic.)

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#535

Post by rayiner »

oblio wrote: post #527
wyager wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greatest and most rapid creation of wealth in human history occurred in the US under an even more extreme form of American individualism than exists today. Europe is quite poor relative to America precisely because its anti-individualism prevents the formation of economic-political environments conducive to wealth creation.

> The greatest and most rapid creation of wealth in human history occurred in the US under an even more extreme form of American individualism than exists today. Do you mean the 1800s? Manifest Destiny? That time when the Americans bought Louisiana for peanuts to double the size of their country, kicked out Mexico to double the size of their country again, bought Alaska to add another 20%, again, for peanuts, and "co…

The idea that America got rich from stealing and oppression is a pernicious myth that keeps other people poor.

Every country has plenty of stealing and oppression in its history—you can always point to that to reject the assertion that something different matters. If India was rich, you could point to all the stealing and oppression of the Mughals, etc. But you’re just pointing to correlation, not causation.

Countries that went from poor to rich in the 20th century, like Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea, among others, without Manifest Destiny and all that jazz show your model to be overall simplistic. Singapore’s Lee Kuan Yew systematically made is poor nation into a rich one by copying the parts of Anglo society he thought was responsible for their wealth. And guess what, it worked!

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#536

Post by oblio »

rayiner wrote: post #535
oblio wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The greatest and most rapid creation of wealth in human history occurred in the US under an even more extreme form of American individualism than exists today. Do you mean the 1800s? Manifest Destiny? That time when the Americans bought Louisiana for peanuts to double the size of their country, kicked out Mexico to double the size of their country again, bought Alaska to add another 20%, again, for peanuts, and "co…

The idea that America got rich from stealing and oppression is a pernicious myth that keeps other people poor. Every country has plenty of stealing and oppression in its history—you can always point to that to reject the assertion that something different matters. If India was rich, you could point to all the stealing and oppression of the Mughals, etc. But you’re just pointing to correlation, not causation. Countrie…

My point was, it's both.

There are a handful of countries who did not benefit from shady dealings and still made it through and the one you pointed out was built by a enlightened and relatively benevolent genius. Hard to scale that.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#537

Post by KSteffensen »

nec4b wrote: post #521
KSteffensen wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a strange comparison. Apple and my local kebab shop are not businesses in the same league and never will be.

I hope you don't think only a multi billion dollar companies count as success. The point is: a lot of poor people start businesses all the time and a lot of them end up successful.

I would not count working 12+ hours per day 7 days a week, while barely making each months rent as success. As far as I can tell that's the reality for most non-franchise stores, small restaurants, etc.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#538

Post by kenjackson »

WalterBright wrote: post #470
kenjackson wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize this is about where the money was coming from. The state had a constitutional mandate to fund education at a certain level and weren't doing so. Local and federal funding was making up the gap. You won't see any impact to education because there isn't more money coming to education as a result of this ruling. Rather more money can flow from federal and local gov't to other programs (or in theory taxes…

If what you're saying is true, then why did the school system say this would fix education?

Anyone who thinks that this fixes education is crazy or insincere. It potentially raises just as many questions as answers. What it should do is relieve pressure from poorer communities though. It also does open the door to pass future education initiatives at the state level which require funding, which can improve education.

But the problems with education are more systemic than just the educational system itself. That said, its good that the state pick up its constitutional responsibility to fully fund education in the state.

https://smartergovernmentwa.org/mccleary-decision-just-fully...

https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/education-lab-iq-...

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#539

Post by ericns »

dctoedt wrote: post #513
ericns wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texan's thinking themselves Texan's is bad because it might be a hurdle to further illegitimate concentration of state power to the federal gov't. Looking at your bio, I'd guess your party to the democratic/republican conspiracy to localize government power in Washington, DC via courts and unconstitutional laws (FISA, all drug laws, PATRIOT ACT). You're all ABA (prosecutors, judges, legislators, politicians) and have…

I'm guessing you were my downvote, and yet I can't downvote your comment. The relevant text of the 14th Amendment here is its opening declaration: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of th…

Not your down vote.

You(ABA/Federal Gov't) claim us as subjects to your federal state. Notice the COVID bailouts going to the highest cost of living states with the largest state income taxes and budget deficits/debts? I don't really give a fuck about equal protection for states when the administrators are wholly removed from accountability. Notice the gun laws in DC and NY - the political and financial centers? Weird how the powerful in those states aren't accountable for their failures, always a bailout at the expense of labor for their financial and political quandries. How many times in the last couple decades have the financiers revealed themselves as liars while paying no personal cost for their lies and deceits?

In an above comment -

" > My New York bar oath says: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York."

Note the order. "

The 14th Amendment is a fraud not because Southern states didn't ratify it while not apart of the Union. It's a fraud in the lack of enforcement against the power structures that initially enacted it.

I don't believe you'd see it my way, I'm thinking because it's a bit - to quote Upton Sinclair, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#540

Post by dctoedt »

ericns wrote: post #539
dctoedt wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you were my downvote, and yet I can't downvote your comment. The relevant text of the 14th Amendment here is its opening declaration: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of th…

Not your down vote. You(ABA/Federal Gov't) claim us as subjects to your federal state. Notice the COVID bailouts going to the highest cost of living states with the largest state income taxes and budget deficits/debts? I don't really give a fuck about equal protection for states when the administrators are wholly removed from accountability. Notice the gun laws in DC and NY - the political and financial centers? Weir…

> to quote Upton Sinclair, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

If you'd done even a bit of homework about me, you'd see that your underlying premise is flawed.

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