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Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#501

Post by bagacrap »

aroundtown wrote: post #395
naturalauction wrote: post #209

The oped touches on one thing I noticed during my time at the University of Cambridge. Almost everyone I talked to there had parents who invested heavily in them either monetarily (hiring nannies, intensive pre-school/after-school care/private school) or time wise from a young age. Increasing access to early child education as argued for by the author seems like no-brainer to bridge some of the gap between children o…

Improving access to education is not enough. You have to improve opportunity. For example, I grew up extremely poor, and went to a small school. The most my parents knew about college was that I was going to go to one. Now I had the intelligence to get into just about any school I wanted, but I had no idea what/where those schools were. I also was unaware of how scholarships worked, or that I could have afforded most…

I don't know if I'd characterize this as a systemic lack of opportunity because it's a problem that would have been addressed by a simple college counselor. These days the internet would clue you in. (I'm sure someone doesn't have access even to that, and that should be fixed, but that doesn't seem sufficient to end all disparity.)

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#502

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

HPsquared wrote: post #490
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Education does not significantly improve outcomes. Period. Define "significant". People who don't graduate high school do much worse than people who graduate from college on average. Even if you only graduate high school, you'll (on average) make half as much over your lifetime as someone who graduated with a Master's Degree [1]. Right now (on average) - people who dropped out of college make nearly 1/3rd as much a…

All mere correlations, which don't refute GP's claim.

When you make a bold claim that "Education does not significantly improve outcomes. Period." and correlations with every positive outcome are very high - the burden is on you to prove a non-causal link, not me.

But of course, proving causation is near impossible. So people love to make bold claims with no data and just say "prove me".

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#503

Post by [deleted] »

prestigious wrote: post #450
Applejinx wrote: post #321

A lot of people here need to talk to some entrepreneurs. It doesn't matter how good, or how well funded, the school system is: if the family is poor, you're not going to be able to float rent on the storefront you need, or purchase initial inventory of whatever you're making, much less soak up a few false starts, much less take out a bank loan to do any of these things. Period. This does not in ANY WAY mean there sho…

Generational wealth is way overstated. Steve jobs didn’t have generational wealth. Airbnb was funded by selling obama branded cereal.

[deleted]

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#504

Post by KSteffensen »

nec4b wrote: post #484
JKCalhoun wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we can point to exceptions.

What exceptions? Don't you have any restaurants or dry cleaners or any other small businesses around where you live which were started by poor immigrants?

That seems like a strange comparison. Apple and my local kebab shop are not businesses in the same league and never will be.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#505

Post by zepto »

oriolid wrote: post #500
zepto wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say that Linux kernel was developed by an international network of hackers with a Finnish leader, and benefited a lot from GNU userland. Linus did quite a bit before the network of hackers joined in. But I don’t disagree with you. My main point is that the US, and big American tech companies don’t have a monopoly on talent.

Not monopoly, but they do pay well and let developers do things, and those two things attract talent. AFAIK it used to be really uncommon in European companies to have advanced career path for engineering, and switching to management is still kind of expected.

> it used to be really uncommon in European companies to have advanced career path for engineering, and switching to management is still kind of expected.

That matches my experience. It concurs with the statement I made elsewhere in this thread that what is holding Europe back is its business culture, not some kind of American Colonialism.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#506

Post by zepto »

IdiocyInAction wrote: post #320
zepto wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd also argue it's a sort of 'digital colonialism' for want of a better term I think that’s a terrible term for it unless you think that America is somehow responsible for preventing Europe from developing its own tech industries.

Not purposely, but the dominance of American tech does make it almost impossible for European competitors to arise. That's why the Chinese are hesitant about US tech.

> does make it almost impossible for European competitors to arise.

There is literally evidence for this. It’s only a business culture that doesn’t celebrate and reward engineering that holds Europe back.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#507

Post by unknown_error »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #499
codq wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but relatively speaking it’s not necessarily a better life. You’d likely rather be a doctor in Belize then a ditch digger in Manhattan, quality of life-wise.

Not sure, the people I know they get to do construction outside and have a very defined work/non-work schedule don’t necessarily hate their job. Quality of life wise, what really matters is how secure you feel in regards to family life. For example, one might likely rather be a ditch digger in Manhattan then a doctor in Brazil that has to live with the daily threat of kidnappings.

TLDR to be happy, one simply must be a kidnapper in Brazil with a good family and set schedule.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#508

Post by dctoedt »

rayiner wrote: post #296
Jcowell wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly the first two should be a federal thing. I just don’t understand how a federal election has 50 different ways of doing and qualifying things and not one way for a position that affects the whole country. If we were to pull up on a Alien planet and see this kind of election style we would ridicule the ridiculousness that is the US election system. Don’t get me started on how it makes any sense that we don’t l…

We’re 50 different states that are, in theory, supposed to be quite independent of each other. (In some ways, even more so than the EU. For example, the EU has no equivalent of our anti-commandeering principle. The EU can direct national administrative organs to carry out task, while the U.S. federal government can’t direct state administrative units. The issue of why taxpayers won’t pay doctors to deliver children i…

> We’re 50 different states that are, in theory, supposed to be quite independent of each other.

That ship sailed over the horizon a long time ago, like at the latest with the adoption of the 14th Amendment nearly 150 years ago. When you took the oath to become a lawyer, you didn't swear allegiance to whatever state you happened to be living in at the time. And sociologically, I'd venture that most U.S. citizens think of themselves as Americans, not as Marylanders or Texans (OK, granted, a lot of Texans think of themselves as Texans first, which isn't a good thing).

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#509

Post by throwaway789256 »

Freddie DeBoer has written about this repeatedly, including in his latest post:

https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/education-week-review-o...

Briefly: many educational institutions were not designed to increase equality, but to protect professions by acting as gatekeepers through a process of cartelization.

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