Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#401

Post by meej » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 9:06 PM UTC

Gravyness wrote: post #290

astrange wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with ADHD is that it applies to everything in your life, not just work. You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series. Actually, they're even harder to do than work because there's no pressure on you to keep up with it.

I hate to be this condescending but why is this not just ordinary laziness? Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus? Isn't it more likely that a constant stream of never ending notifications and interruptions decrease our attention span to seconds? You can't read a book because you can't read an article, and you can't read and article because yo…

There's a growing group of psychologists who say laziness is a myth. It doesn't exist. When someone is being what we would call lazy, there is almost always something else going on.

https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e...

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#402

Post by meej » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 9:07 PM UTC

philsnow wrote: post #376

astrange wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with ADHD is that it applies to everything in your life, not just work. You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series. Actually, they're even harder to do than work because there's no pressure on you to keep up with it.

That actually sounds more like depression than ADHD, although ADHD folks very often also have depression so they can be hard to suss out.

Since ADHD is a neurobiological disorder that people are born with, and because undiagnosed ADHD can cause depression, it should be ruled out before diagnosing depression. Same with anxiety.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#403

Post by meej » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #378

tailspin2019 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ADHD is the new Aspergers WTF does that even mean

In internet culture, self-diagnosing Asperger's syndrome was a huge trend in the mid to late 2000's. Skeptics often claimed it was an excuse to cover up for social deficiencies and awkwardness. There are similar phenomena of people doing that with all sorts of maladies or abstract identities, from chronic fatigue syndrome to being an introvert. I find ADHD to be an odd choice though, relatively. It seems like it's be…

I self-diagnosed Aspergers in the mid 2000s. The primarily inattentive subtype of ADHD is a better match for my symptoms, particularly the social ones, but both my psychiatrist and neuropsychologist agreed that my self-diagnosis made sense and I have traits of both disorders. They are very often comorbid. I just wasn't familiar enough with the diagnostic criteria of ADHD to realize I had it. (A roommate with ADHD that I had at the time suggested it, though.)

Also, ADHD is in fact under-diagnosed, particularly in adults and especially in women.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4195639/

Some children are overmedicated, but there's evidence it's also underdiagnosed in children.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#404

Post by graeme » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

nebula8804 wrote: post #198

borski wrote: post #150

Read up a bit on ADHD. That 'hyperfocus' that occurs either with deadlines or on a passion project is a symptom, as is the inability to get excited about projects you simply don't want to do - especially given your otherwise positive reviews and your ability to clear your mind and hyperfocus near a deadline, it's something to consider. I was diagnosed at 33, and it changed my life infinitely for the better. YMMV, and…

What did you do to solve it? I recently saw this Reddit post [1] and immediately booked an appointment with my doctor. He gave me the run around and asked me to book a 15 min call with another doctor to get an anxiety assessment. As soon as the call began they asked if I felt like I had ADHD. I said maybe and they stopped and said that they only diagnose anxiety. Now I am 200$ poorer(thanks American healthcare) and a…

Wow thank you for that video. It pretty clearly demonstrated to me that I di not have ADHD. I’ve seen threads like thus, recognized a few symptoms, and wondered. But my inner state is not even remotely close to that.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#405

Post by robocat » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

tailspin2019 wrote: post #385

robocat wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life. OCD is merely a label for a cluster of symptoms. It says nothing about the cause. The same can be said for the majority of psychiatric diagnoses afaik. E.g. “Doctors aren’t sure why some people have OCD.” - https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/obsessive-compulsive-dis... E…

The presumption here seems to be that just because we don't know the cause of a condition, the condition is less "valid"?

Sorry, I really did not mean to give that impression, and I do not trivialise mental health issues.

There is a hell of a lot of bullshit in psychology and psychiatry, sometimes to the point of abusing those they are supposed to help.

I do think that the beliefs like "my brain is wired wrong" or "it's a brain chemistry problem" are usually wrong for some conditions, and that those beliefs can be harmful because they discourage seeking less obvious solutions or solutions particular to the person.

Also you do not want unrealistic expectations of a "cure", or to encourage seeking of dangerous interventions.

The friends I have with mental health issues usually have another layer of strange personal beliefs, which doesn't help either!

It is a difficult topic to comment on, because people tend to be sensitive about it, for valid reasons.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#406

Post by Apocryphon » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

meej wrote: post #403

Apocryphon wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In internet culture, self-diagnosing Asperger's syndrome was a huge trend in the mid to late 2000's. Skeptics often claimed it was an excuse to cover up for social deficiencies and awkwardness. There are similar phenomena of people doing that with all sorts of maladies or abstract identities, from chronic fatigue syndrome to being an introvert. I find ADHD to be an odd choice though, relatively. It seems like it's be…

I self-diagnosed Aspergers in the mid 2000s. The primarily inattentive subtype of ADHD is a better match for my symptoms, particularly the social ones, but both my psychiatrist and neuropsychologist agreed that my self-diagnosis made sense and I have traits of both disorders. They are very often comorbid. I just wasn't familiar enough with the diagnostic criteria of ADHD to realize I had it. (A roommate with ADHD tha…

I don't mean to dismiss everyone who self-diagnoses. I was pointing out a known social phenomenon or trend of people doing so, possibly because of greater public awareness of the condition. Also see gluten intolerance for a non-psychological example.

Funnily enough, I chanced upon a random YouTube video yesterday and the very top comment was someone mentioning ADHD and others chiming in, while skeptics criticizing the self-diagnosing and likening it to those who self-diagnose other conditions such as depression:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ph3ZCriWAw&lc=Ugw0IXd-rBjzj...

Whether right or wrong, it definitely is a known internet social phenomenon. That's what the ancestral post in this current subthread was referring to by referring to ADHD as the new Asperger's.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#407

Post by DantesKite » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

QuercusMax wrote: post #39

DantesKite wrote: post #13

Working for several hours a day is unfeasible for most people, unless you're working on something you actively love. From my perspective, as long as you're not holding anyone back, I think you're doing a decent job of modulating your energy for moments when you need it, as opposed to marathon running all day long.

As someone with RSI, this is absolutely a good way to look at it. I've been working on rehabbing my hands and shoulders so I can work at longer / more intensive stretches, but I can only keep it up for a few weeks before I need some lighter duty work. I've had to give up video games and recreational keyboarding, but it means I can continue to work and put in the hours when needed.

I had severe RSI and managed to overcome it with constant massaging every hour for about a month. It turns out most carpal tunnel can be alleviated with massaging your forearms. Learned this the hard way...

I tried doing the stretches, but it ended up just creating scar tissue (wouldn't recommend).

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#408

Post by darkerside » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

throwaway743 wrote: post #295

darkerside wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These all seem like normal human activities to me, tbh

It's more of an issue of organizing and properly prioritizing one's thoughts, along with the irl output being misaligned. This usually results in an incredible amount frustration that gets fed back into the thought loop and frequently causes confusion, which that confusion contributes to the above and can lead to depression and/or anxiety (both in my case unfortunately). The struggle is more than the simplistic descr…

Yeah, I 100% relate to this, and I bet a lot of people do. I would wager that ADHD like most things exists along a spectrum, and that its symptoms in mild cases can be coped with. I'm sure there's a point at which they becomes impossible.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#409

Post by emptysongglass » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 4:55 AM UTC

slingnow wrote: post #365

emptysongglass wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be true for tribal societies but we don't live in one anymore and unless I go try and join the sentinels at Sentinel Island, which I have a 99% chance of being killed before reaching, I have to find a way to live and prosper in the society we do have and that's by medicating. I tried for a decade to make myself work "naturally". Almost left to be a monastic forever. At some point you have to pick up the same…

The original topic of this post is someone who is well liked by their coworkers and by the sounds of it plenty productive in the eyes of the company. So your idea that you have to conform at all costs is pretty shaky at best.

I'm not responding to the original post.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#410

Post by tailspin2019 » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #405

tailspin2019 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The presumption here seems to be that just because we don't know the cause of a condition, the condition is less "valid"?

Sorry, I really did not mean to give that impression, and I do not trivialise mental health issues. There is a hell of a lot of bullshit in psychology and psychiatry, sometimes to the point of abusing those they are supposed to help. I do think that the beliefs like "my brain is wired wrong" or "it's a brain chemistry problem" are usually wrong for some conditions, and that those beliefs can be harmful because they d…

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with everything you've said and I realise that I may have misinterpreted what you were trying to say in your previous comment.

> It is a difficult topic to comment on, because people tend to be sensitive about it, for valid reasons.

It definitely is.

Having been recently diagnosed (via medical professionals) with ADHD, I've suddenly encountered for the first time what it's like to be on the other side of this.

I previously had a very misinformed idea of what ADHD (and related things like OCD) actually were. I wouldn't have trivialised them necessarily in words or conversation, but I definitely had a completely wrong understanding of the seriousness of these conditions. I didn't know what I didn't know.

The misconceptions about some of these conditions are so widespread that in my case, I've found it actively unhelpful in some cases to talk to many people in my life about it. Having done the research, I now understand much more about how my brain works and why some things are much harder for me than others, but trying to bridge the gap in this knowledge with others is really hard. Even those closest to me either view the diagnosis with suspicion (and I don't blame them for that if they have the same misconcieved idea about the condition that I did). Others just listen to me describing the problems I have and dismiss them (not intentionally) by saying things like "everyone has those problems"!

I've heard (perhaps even read on HN) that after being diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood you go through a bit of a grieving phase, in denial, then angry at medical professionals who didn't it spot it before, and then sadness at how your life might have been had you realised you had this condition much earlier. I'm in that phase now, and so the lack of understanding from others (which again, I don't blame them for) makes this all the more harder. I'm trying to reincorporate this new understanding into the "model" of myself that I've constructed over many years (without this important information) - it's tough and rather isolating.

So all of that said. I guess I'm likely to view a lot of discussion on this topic through my own specific lens, which is likely to make me overly sensitive to perceived "trivialisation".

It's interesting to recognise that I wouldn't have had this sensitivity at all only just a matter of weeks ago. It's funny how your outlook on things can change so significantly in a short space of time.