A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #578

scubbo wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any claim to be male, female, non-binary or whatever must be accepted at face value. And that the person who is making the claim should have the right to any treatment that they wish, up to and including surgery. I can understand some caution around the latter part of this quote, given how traumatic, invasive, and costly surgery can be. It is a defensible and reasonable position that there should be _some_ barrier-…

But how can anyone _possibly_ deny the first part? How could anyone contradict an individual who states their own gender - on what grounds can you claim to know how someone feels about themselves better than they themself do? How do you define denying the first part? According to my child's world view, I need to ask them every day what their pronouns are today. And any accidental slip-ups on any adult's part are a de…

Post by neartheplain » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:10 PM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #667

_etyf wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The situation for college students, at least a certain segment, is that people with the transgender identity are far more common than they once were. That's the base reality, not the product of any ideology. And whatever it's point of origin, this reality for these isn't going to change. A significant number of people who identity as trans later return to their original gender identity. This is known as "detransitio…

A significant number of people who identity as trans later return to their original gender identity. Whatever the percentage of people who chose to do this, that situation doesn't actually change my point - that significant number of trans people exist and their situation is quite threatened. And the way that you (and other) think that this is a "counter argument" is something of a demonstration that people making th…

Post by mike00632 » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:11 PM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #456

mike00632 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you insist on calling that person by the wrong name even though you know it's not what they prefer? That seems like a pretty good example of creating a toxic work environment and you should be fired over it.

It would depend on the specifics. There is a difference between harassing someone and not deferring to their request on the basis that you don't agree with it (however misguided you may be). Conflating these two things is precisely why there's a backlash against CRT et al. from otherwise left-leaning individuals.

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:11 PM UTC

jolux wrote: post #380

deadite wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Interestingly enough, there's not much animosity toward trans-men. These ground exclusively concern themselves with trans-women. I second this. Maybe it's some echo chamber effect or a minority stirring shit up, but I've hardly heard anything over the years about transmen-as-men vs men-as-men. It seems like most of the focus is on transwomen-as-women vs women-as-women. Maybe we're not as vocal? Maybe we care less? I…

TERFs primarily don't focus on trans men because they see them as misguided women. You can find many TERFs blaming trans women and "gender ideology" for convincing butch-identified lesbians that they're actually straight men. Personally I think this denies trans men the dignity and autonomy to define themselves as they see fit, but then again, I would say that, I'm trans.

Post by konogasa » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:11 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #419

drenvuk wrote: post #268

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

I think there will be rather a lot of us who are quite animated by this issue—one that doesn’t directly affect us—because of our own past experiences. As a gay man growing up in the 90s, I very acutely remember some of the public discourse around gay rights while I was a teenager. In the UK, that specifically included a coordinated campaign against mentions of homosexuality in education, with some pretty stark attemp…