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A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

economist.com

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Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#421

Post by rkk3 »

mkr-hn wrote: post #386
btilly wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is hard to say. In a world full of discrimination against trans folks, who knows how many people who would prefer being trans have failed to be identified? But the topic is much bigger than that. You see, the ideology being pushed says that everyone who has gender dysphoria should be assumed to be trans. But a LOT of teenagers, particularly girls, go through a period of gender dysphoria when they hit puberty. Wh…

>> "and well-meaning attempts at gender reassignment surgery for them" This isn't actually a thing. Certain factions who would prefer trans people cease to exist push this idea that kids are on this hot new meme of getting their bits flipped before reaching the age of consent, but it is simply not a thing. No top surgery, either. It just isn't a thing. It's a wild fantasy. The only thing kids can go on are puberty bl…

>> and well-meaning attempts at gender reassignment surgery for them will backfire

> The only thing kids can go on are puberty blockers.

So instead of specifying gender reassignment surgery, they should have something more broad, like well-meaning medical interventions. It seems like the heart of their statement is true and that these medical interventions on children can backfire.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#422

Post by seph-reed »

When I was in high school, we read both "1984" and "Brave New World."

At the time I kind of thought: "liberals are more like BNW with drugs and 'karma' and such, and conservatives are more like 1984 with endless wars and refusing to acknowledge things."

At some point in my life, it feels this has flipped.

I now see conservatives as consuming soma (tv) to lull them into a false and simple world, and liberals as enforcing wrong-think.

Obviously, life is much more complex than two books, and similarities can be drawn in any direction. But I still find it interesting having watched my perceptions flip.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#423

Post by inglor_cz »

long_time_gone wrote: post #254
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Long queue for the ladies? Identify as a man for 5 minutes! Accidently go to the gym at 7 on a Wednesday? Be a girl for 90 minutes so you can work out! I like this. I’ve already identified to my employer that I’m partially Black even though, to the best of my knowledge, I’m not. They can’t deny it and it only benefits them (they can increase their ratios of minority employers which is public data). I can choose to…

==I can choose to identify as black if I like.== What is the benefit for you? Is it trolling?

Let us say that the OP believes in reincarnation and believes that his soul is black, used to live in black bodies, and was mistakenly reincarnated into a white body on this occasion, but still feels black and carries memories of being black.

Quite a lot of people on Earth believe in reincarnation and would find such a situation entirely possible. The question is, is a Western country obliged to respect a religious argument like this?

Maybe yes. After all, race is said to be a social construct. Why not add reincarnation into the mix.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#424

Post by makeworld »

HideousKojima wrote: post #205
rootusrootus wrote: post #145

What a tough problem to solve. My current thought on the gender identity issue is that society should default to the absolute minimum amount of categorizing people by their gender. What you identify as only matters to the extent that we divide people. Nobody would care if you used the women's bathroom, if such a thing did not exist. And when it is absolutely necessary for a distinction to exist, then we can spend the…

>"I feel unsafe if there is a man in the bathroom." Why? Because men (biological males if we're being pedantic) are statistically overwhelmingly more likely to commit rape and other forms of sexual assault (and other violent crimes) and to be horny creepy perverted sex pests in general. Add to that the fact that men are much more physically strong than women (a ~5th percentile male is about as strong as a ~95th perce…

Can't violent men just enter these bathrooms or dress up as women anyway? Rape is already a crime, no matter what gender you are. I don't see what a bathroom bill would meaningfully solve. Plus bathroom bills have already been shown to force trans men into women's washrooms.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#425

Post by moate »

plank_time wrote: post #330
caeril wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a large segment of the population that feels actively threatened by trans rights. The two primary components are: 1. Parents and sexual violence victims concerned about the non-falsifiability of trans-identification and the related concerns of sexual predators claiming an identity they don't actually have to gain access to private spaces of women and girls. 2. Feminists (TERFs) who believe being a woman is a…

TERF is a pejorative term, I wouldn’t use it unless you are trying to attack feminists.

How do you define a TERF without calling them a TERF (and distinguishing them from other Radical Feminists or mainstream 4th wave feminists)?

If we can't call a spade a spade, what shall we call it?

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#426

Post by r00fus »

smoldesu wrote: post #181
fungiblecog wrote: post #92

I think the irony of the current battle around identity is that we have been making steady progress based on the idea that personal characteristics shouldn't matter. However this whole debate is reversing that by not only saying it matters a great deal but that other people should be forced to defer to others personal choices even when it directly affects them

This was ironically one of the things that was hardest about coming out as gay, for me. Nobody ever treated me the same way again. I was either uncomfortably praised or silently judged, with practically no in-between. Suffice to say, my sexuality is on a need-to-know basis, now.

As someone who is CIS, I also don't try to imply a sexuality in myself or others unless I'm with people I know. I try not to speak about my wife, but my "spouse" and try to use gender-neutral terms where appropriate.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#427

Post by [deleted] »

deadite wrote: post #319
caeril wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a large segment of the population that feels actively threatened by trans rights. The two primary components are: 1. Parents and sexual violence victims concerned about the non-falsifiability of trans-identification and the related concerns of sexual predators claiming an identity they don't actually have to gain access to private spaces of women and girls. 2. Feminists (TERFs) who believe being a woman is a…

>Interestingly enough, there's not much animosity toward trans-men. These ground exclusively concern themselves with trans-women. I second this. Maybe it's some echo chamber effect or a minority stirring shit up, but I've hardly heard anything over the years about transmen-as-men vs men-as-men. It seems like most of the focus is on transwomen-as-women vs women-as-women. Maybe we're not as vocal? Maybe we care less? I…

[deleted]

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#428

Post by chc »

swebs wrote: post #349
caeril wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a large segment of the population that feels actively threatened by trans rights. The two primary components are: 1. Parents and sexual violence victims concerned about the non-falsifiability of trans-identification and the related concerns of sexual predators claiming an identity they don't actually have to gain access to private spaces of women and girls. 2. Feminists (TERFs) who believe being a woman is a…

>2. Feminists (TERFs) who believe being a woman is a fundamental, biological identity and cannot be coopted by males. I'd wager that most people believe this. Not just feminists.

Polling suggests otherwise:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-women-supp...

https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/548775-new-poll...

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#429

Post by CapmCrackaWaka »

tomp wrote: post #321
IncRnd wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This would mean throwing out a lot of the more epheremeral complaints "I feel unsafe if there is a man in the bathroom." Why? Let's fix that part, then. Because there are going to be scary women too. Do you recognize that there are actual reasons that a woman might not want to go into a bathroom with 5 men in it?

It took a lot of mental self-awareness on my part, and reading a lot of such statements, to recognise how strongly I've been mentally programmed (brainwashed) by society to think of men as evil , and not even flinch when I used to read statements like the one above (implying / assuming that men are, by default, extremely violent and dangerous, and that everyone is justified by judging every man as such). It's easier…

This is a sore subject, but the difference here is that rape is an evolutionary artifact left over from when it was advantageous (from a reproductive standpoint) to do so. It was, quite frankly, an evolutionary advantage for men to rape women. I personally doubt this urge is different based on race. In fact, women’s fear or rape is one of the only times I find it acceptable to use phrasing like you described.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#430

Post by HideousKojima »

makeworld wrote: post #424
HideousKojima wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"I feel unsafe if there is a man in the bathroom." Why? Because men (biological males if we're being pedantic) are statistically overwhelmingly more likely to commit rape and other forms of sexual assault (and other violent crimes) and to be horny creepy perverted sex pests in general. Add to that the fact that men are much more physically strong than women (a ~5th percentile male is about as strong as a ~95th perce…

Can't violent men just enter these bathrooms or dress up as women anyway? Rape is already a crime, no matter what gender you are. I don't see what a bathroom bill would meaningfully solve. Plus bathroom bills have already been shown to force trans men into women's washrooms.

Sure they still can, but without such a bill the women in the bathroom can't take actions like calling security until the man actually starts doing something violent/criminal/creepy/whatever. With such a bill their mere presence is enough.
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