A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities • Hacker News Board

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#291

Post by Rebelgecko » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

HideousKojima wrote: post #205

rootusrootus wrote: post #145

What a tough problem to solve. My current thought on the gender identity issue is that society should default to the absolute minimum amount of categorizing people by their gender. What you identify as only matters to the extent that we divide people. Nobody would care if you used the women's bathroom, if such a thing did not exist. And when it is absolutely necessary for a distinction to exist, then we can spend the…

>"I feel unsafe if there is a man in the bathroom." Why? Because men (biological males if we're being pedantic) are statistically overwhelmingly more likely to commit rape and other forms of sexual assault (and other violent crimes) and to be horny creepy perverted sex pests in general. Add to that the fact that men are much more physically strong than women (a ~5th percentile male is about as strong as a ~95th perce…

IMO bringing statistical likelihoods into it is a dangerous road to go down and could lead to some seriously problematic outcomes.

For example, what if people in certain socioeconomic groups are more likely to commit rape? Or people of certain ethnicities?

Would it make sense to require them to use separate bathrooms? Or is it only ok to slice and dice the stats based on certain characteristics? To me it's kind of a scary idea— just because a certain demographic is more likely to commit a crime doesn't mean we should make life difficult for all members of that demographic. Even if their facilities are, in theory, separate but equal.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#292

Post by _qbjt » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #223

oofabz wrote: post #98

I don't think gender ideology is an appropriate topic for HN. There is little to be gained and much to be lost from discussing it here. Little to be gained because it has nothing to do with software development, and because gender issues are thoroughly covered elsewhere. Much to be lost because gender issues are so divisive that we risk alienating members of our community.

Certainly I am finding it very difficult to be heard. As a member of the trans community I’ve tried to be kind and helpful in my comments in this thread but I’m getting downvoted to hell. I just really want people in this thread to learn about emotional labor and to consider what they’re asking of marginalized people when they want to “discuss” the validity of their needs.

Trans people are a hot button issue these days but it feels like we don’t really have a seat at the table in that debate. The healthiest thing you can do for yourself is just live your life, surround yourself with people who make you feel safe, valued and loved, and stop trying to convince random strangers online that you’re worth something. I take a lot of inspiration from the ball room / drag culture - how it creates families for LGBTQ folks where none exist and uses expression as a form of activism. It’s not my place to change anyone’s mind; all I can do is live my life and hopefully others will grow as a result of observing me.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#293

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #171

tetranomiga wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno if I'd agree that it's a small vocal minority, zero-tolerance to anybody questioning the current dogma is seen everywhere where trans acceptance is a focus. Ten years ago I was told, by trans people, that there are physical differences between trans and cis brains. Say that today, and you get kicked out of LGBT spaces for being a transmedicalist or truscum. I have no idea whether it's true or not because you…

I do not know anything about the subject of the linked article, nor her views. Did not venture past the pay/registration wall. I have no opinion about her. zero-tolerance to anybody questioning the current dogma is seen everywhere Generally, of course dogma should be questioned. However, academic freedom does not mean that universities must provide a platform to literally anybody that wants one. Their resources are f…

Why are publicly funded institutions allowed to decide who's opinion matters and whose doesn't? Assuming the discussion is poised and not straight up slandering nonsense, what harm does it do? Are we trying to curtail freedom of speech? They shouldn't be allowed to take a stance because they are the government. Although for some reason colleges can operate as some separate entity that just happens to siphon government funds...

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#294

Post by karpierz » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

drenvuk wrote: post #268

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

On the other hand, there isn't any controversy as to whether blindness is a real condition.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#295

Post by LatteLazy » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

long_time_gone wrote: post #254

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Long queue for the ladies? Identify as a man for 5 minutes! Accidently go to the gym at 7 on a Wednesday? Be a girl for 90 minutes so you can work out! I like this. I’ve already identified to my employer that I’m partially Black even though, to the best of my knowledge, I’m not. They can’t deny it and it only benefits them (they can increase their ratios of minority employers which is public data). I can choose to…

==I can choose to identify as black if I like.== What is the benefit for you? Is it trolling?

I'm not OP.

I generally answer the ethnicity question randomly. This is because:

* I don't like be lumped into "white British"

* the whole question is rude imho (why does the gym need to know my race and sexuality!?)

* services I use shouldn't shouldn't lose "points" because of my colour/religion/sexuality/shoe-size

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#296

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

ssully wrote: post #272

TimTheTinker wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to me that sexuality and identity are so intertwined. Why should someone "come out" as anything? (I know a lot of people "come out" as various things in a mere bid for attention... I'll leave that issue aside.) If I knew someone casually for a while who never talked about his/her sexuality, but one day they said "I never said this before, but I'm a heterosexual", I'd certainly feel awkward about it. Why di…

Because it is something they felt the need to repress for a potentially long portion of their life. Coming out is the start of a process to release the pressure that has built up from that repression and letting the person's personal view of themselves realign with the public view of themselves. Also, yes it is weird that sexuality and identity are intertwined, but that is not something that is new and it is somethin…

[deleted]

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#297

Post by Latty » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #200

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> house intact trans-women Why would a rapist stop wanting to rape regardless of the state of their genitals? Is sexual violation with a penis so much more horrific than other violations it deserves special consideration?

Its also about the possibility of being impregnated Just personalize the idea, your sister or female significant other was thrown in jail, and then housed with a male who is a trans woman who has sex with her with or without her consent and creates an ongoing consequence that is impossible if trans women were not there That would be the expectation you would start with to form a conclusion Sex in male prisons does no…

By this logic, it would be fine if they were infertile, which is obvious nonsense.

Sexual assault does not hit some magic breaking point where it becomes an unacceptable risk at the chance of impregnation. If there is a significant risk of sexual assault, then the prison has fundamentally failed and that is the thing that needs fixing.

It simply doesn't matter if someone is trans or not, cis people are just as capable of sexual assault, and prisons must be protecting all inmates, not only cis-women, from assault.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#298

Post by mike00632 » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

xupybd wrote: post #137

mike00632 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel the same way about nicknames? If you call someone by a nickname that they don't like and they let you know they prefer their own name then do you consider it too onerous to defer to them about it?

This is common in many of the team sports I've played in. The more someone hates their nickname the more likely it will stick. Generally it's only done with close friends.

Yeah, but is such behavior acceptable in the workplace? And is it right to use this behavior as a guide to lessen the legal status of trans people?

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#299

Post by watwut » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

MyHypatia wrote: post #89

throwaway284534 wrote: post #36

There’s a lot that’s already been said in this topic but I feel compelled to bring up the damage imposed by TERF talking points. The conversation goes something like this: “Transgender women possess an innate maleness that carries a non-zero threat to female spaces.” They believe that dictionary definitions of woman are prescriptive, declared at the chromosomes during birth, rather than descriptive, as in how one pre…

I don't see how it is unreasonable for a female inmate to be uncomfortable sharing sleeping quarters with a person who has a penis (regardless of how that person identifies). The fear that cis-women have of rape is real. The fear that transgender women have of rape in a men's jail is real. I think the fairest thing to do is take both of these fears seriously and house intact trans-women in a space where they neither…

Trans people are way more likely to be raped then non trans. And cis women do get attacked by trans men. Like, if your concern is prison rape, it is quite odd to start with lowest probability events and ignore high probability events.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#300

Post by kwanbix » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

lotu wrote: post #256

kwanbix wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% Agree. At least in my home country, this is mostly fueled by the left (I consider myself center). Lots of them just "work" of doing nothing but protesting, so once they get something they wanted, they have to move to the next thing. For example, they start by making changes to the language so, instead of being "los" (male) or "las" (female) they started to say "les" (does not exists in spanish) as they say it is…

Language is defined by the people who speak it, not by some authority. If people are using “les” than it is part of Spanish.

If it was natural an used by all, it could be, but it in this case it was not natural, not used or liked by all, and forced.

For example, thief's use their own words and it is not considered part of Spanish for example.

They started with gender ideology and then started to escalate. And it is not more inclusive if you force me to leave my believes. If you want to be called "les", and you ask nice, I will probably have no problem. Now, if you want me to embrace that "les" is more inclusive because you just say so and you force me to do it, is not part of Spanish.

A similar thing happened with abortion. First they started saying it has to be legal, then that it had to be free, and then that if you are a doctor and you don't agree with abortion you have to do it anyway (they force you to do it by law).