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A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

economist.com

41–50 of 1001 posts

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#41
post #21

> The arguments the two sides put forward, in other words, are complex and debatable. But many trans activists think that any disagreement is tantamount to hate speech and try to suppress it. This is 100% my personal experience also. Even on HN last week someone said I should try to be a "better human" and compared my suggestion that maybe someone might oppose transgender women in women's spaces for reasons other tha…

The idea is to set up rhetorical either-or's and then browbeat the majority into silence:

Either you support unlimited immigration or you are a racist.

Either you are 100% on board with the entire vaccine schedule or you are an anti-vaxxer.

Either you say that Covid was a natural occurrence or you are a conspiracy theorist (and probably a racist too).

And so on.

Say what one will, but it's effective.

I think one reason it works so well in the US is our puritan heritage, which has always had a strong manichean current in it. As the elites lost their religion, they retained this characteristic and it now manifests itself in the secular realm.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#42
post #21

> The arguments the two sides put forward, in other words, are complex and debatable. But many trans activists think that any disagreement is tantamount to hate speech and try to suppress it. This is 100% my personal experience also. Even on HN last week someone said I should try to be a "better human" and compared my suggestion that maybe someone might oppose transgender women in women's spaces for reasons other tha…

The idea is to set up rhetorical either-or's and then browbeat the majority into silence: Either you support unlimited immigration or you are a racist. Either you are 100% on board with the entire vaccine schedule or you are an anti-vaxxer. Either you say that Covid was a natural occurrence or you are a conspiracy theorist (and probably a racist too). And so on. Say what one will, but it's effective. I think one reas…

Sometimes the either-or's are not just either-or's, they're catch 22's. Trans people are suffering from gender dysphoria and denying that is transphobic, but if you say trans people are suffering from gender dysphoria you're a transmedicalist truscum. Checkmate atheists!

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#43
post #21

> The arguments the two sides put forward, in other words, are complex and debatable. But many trans activists think that any disagreement is tantamount to hate speech and try to suppress it. This is 100% my personal experience also. Even on HN last week someone said I should try to be a "better human" and compared my suggestion that maybe someone might oppose transgender women in women's spaces for reasons other tha…

But why would you discuss someone's medical suffering by leading with a topic on trans elite sports, which focuses on an extreme niche and elite phenomena?

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#44
"Gender critical" people claim that someone's sex cannot be changed, not even using surgery and hormones. So what is sex then? Obviously not one's hormones as those can be replaced just fine. That leaves chromosomes, primary and secondary characteristics.

They also claim that gender is more important than sex. When they, for example, address someone as "Dear Mr. Smith", they must be referring to their sex then. Which means they mean something like:

- "Dear Smith, who has XY chromosomes"

- "Dear Smith, who has a natural grown penis"

- "Dear Smith, who has a penis that works well enough that I consider them a man

- "Dear Smith, who can grow a beard"

- "Dear Smith, whose shoulder width is typical for a human male"

All of these are either bafflingly irrelevant, fucked up or inaccurate. So how exactly is one's sex relevant to anyone except their doctors and partners?

> In February, when Donna Hughes, a professor of women\u2019s studies at Rhode Island University, published an article critical of gender ideology, petitions sprouted calling for her to be fired.

The article, which the Economist didn't bother to link to:

https://4w.pub/fantasy-worlds-on-the-political-right-and-lef...

It's more of a pamphlet filled with lies, sexism and conspiracy theories. I think academic freedom is too important to fire her over this, but I understand the petitions.

> In February Holly Lawford-Smith, a professor of philosophy at the University of Melbourne, launched a website which invited women to describe their experiences of sharing female-only spaces with trans women. It is not a research project and its reports are unverified. Most describe a feeling of discomfort rather than any form of physical assault.

So? I'm sure some women feel uncomfortable around black women. Or lesbians. Someone feeling uncomfortable around people of a given group is a common cause of discrimination and bigotry.

> If Maya Forstater, a British researcher who lost her job because of her gender-critical views

No, Mr. Forstater lost his job not because of his views but because "It is a core component of her belief that she will refer to a person by the sex she considered appropriate even if it violates their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment".[1]

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50858919

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is to set up rhetorical either-or's and then browbeat the majority into silence: Either you support unlimited immigration or you are a racist. Either you are 100% on board with the entire vaccine schedule or you are an anti-vaxxer. Either you say that Covid was a natural occurrence or you are a conspiracy theorist (and probably a racist too). And so on. Say what one will, but it's effective. I think one reas…

Sometimes the either-or's are not just either-or's, they're catch 22's. Trans people are suffering from gender dysphoria and denying that is transphobic, but if you say trans people are suffering from gender dysphoria you're a transmedicalist truscum. Checkmate atheists!

Transgender is a psychiatric disorder with potential medical treatment. The problem is that it’s also a lifeline for people who are seeking an identity, and they become hyper sensitive to any questioning of something that, again, is all in their heads.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#46
post #21

> The arguments the two sides put forward, in other words, are complex and debatable. But many trans activists think that any disagreement is tantamount to hate speech and try to suppress it. This is 100% my personal experience also. Even on HN last week someone said I should try to be a "better human" and compared my suggestion that maybe someone might oppose transgender women in women's spaces for reasons other tha…

But why would you discuss someone's medical suffering by leading with a topic on trans elite sports, which focuses on an extreme niche and elite phenomena?

Because I am making the point that even mentioning something as extreme as that still gets me lambasted with abuse. So if we can't even discuss that civilly, how on Earth are we meant to discuss more nuanced issues?

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#47

"Gender critical" people claim that someone's sex cannot be changed, not even using surgery and hormones. So what is sex then? Obviously not one's hormones as those can be replaced just fine. That leaves chromosomes, primary and secondary characteristics. They also claim that gender is more important than sex. When they, for example, address someone as "Dear Mr. Smith", they must be referring to their sex then. Which…

Maya Forstater might be a trash goblin and disgrace to humanity, but she's still a she last I heard.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#48
post #6

A flyer with an image of a gun and text reading “shut the fuck up, terf” (trans-exclusionary radical feminist, a slur) was circulating Not accepting incivility from people is hardly what I'd call a "backlash". We don't operate our universities on the heckler's veto.

It’s too late. The University is now the violent echo chamber, paranoid that the slightest disagreement or questioning of radicalism and power-obsessed minority tribalism, will lead to a collapse of the university’s cushy well-paid status as the true halls of higher learning.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#49
post #27

Freedom of expression/free speech doesn’t mean freedom not to be offended or that you have to agree with the views. If we do not support even the most offensive speech then we risk a very slippery slope leading to censorship and 1984.

[flagged]

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno if I'd agree that it's a small vocal minority, zero-tolerance to anybody questioning the current dogma is seen everywhere where trans acceptance is a focus. Ten years ago I was told, by trans people, that there are physical differences between trans and cis brains. Say that today, and you get kicked out of LGBT spaces for being a transmedicalist or truscum. I have no idea whether it's true or not because you…

"Truscum" being the word for someone who thinks that changing one's gender and sexual characteristics might not be the greatest idea ever unless you actually have , like, gender dysphoria. Never mind the many, many people who are now pursuing "detransition" after going one step too far. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

"many, many people" -- do you have numbers as to how many people detransition, not due to being pressured but because they aren't trans after all, and only after making irreversible changes?
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