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Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

insidethegames.biz

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Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#281

Post by herodoturtle »

kristopolous wrote: post #267
herodoturtle wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Of course, this debate is taking place in a broader context of discrimination against transgender people, and that is why the question is never free of ideology. However, the extreme nature of this particular situation really demonstrates the need to set up a stricter legal framework for transgender inclusion in sports, and especially elite sports. You say: > It's an outlier that's being pushed in…

It's a political football. An internal technicality of an institutions rules committee being presented as an international debate is the politicizing thing here. This inflation is done all the time to push a political agenda. The "welfare queen" to ban humanitarianism, Willie Horton to create the modern carceral state. This is super common. Most of the time it fails, like with Garcia Zarate or Juan Leonardo Quintero…

Thanks for editing your comment to add the insight that you did.

My original interpretation before your edit was that the article specifically talks about the need for a "stricter legal framework for transgender inclusion in sports", and I was confused when you said that it's a propaganda piece being used "to frame generalized trans discrimination".

But now I better understand what you meant by "political football", so thanks for clarifying.

> Were you born yesterday or are you just trying to argue with people?

Aide re, this wasn't necessary.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#282

Post by textgel »

kristopolous wrote: post #238
b0rsuk wrote: post #199

I don't have a big problem with people who "identify as" someone else. I have a big one with people who insist that *I* must call them in a particular way. It clashes with the idea that freedom of one person stops where freedom of another person starts. What about my right to call another person as I see them? This is invasive. I'm not telling them how to live - they are. This is *gaslighting* and promoting *taboos*.…

> I have a big one with people who insist that I must call them in a particular way. It clashes with the idea that freedom of one person stops where freedom of another person starts So this would also apply to say, racial slurs and personal insults. Calling someone a name or the n-word instead of their name, that's a freedom? What about antisemitic slurs or insulting disabled people? How about just referring to women…

You don't have the right not to be offended. No matter how many times you ask.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#283

Post by unrealhoang »

yerwhat01010 wrote: post #245
syngrog66 wrote: post #172

the most elegant and fair solution to problems like this is to eliminate all gender distinctions in sports and collapse all leagues, competitions and record categories into a unified human category. let the best human win, regardless of their birth gender, sex preference, or sex organs at moment. yes, there will be certain sports or events that will tend to favor male. but there will be some that favor female. let th…

> there will be some that favor female. Which sports are these? In which physical sports do women have an advantage over men? Can you name one?

It's not even limited to physical, there's a vast discrepancy between male and female in non-physical competition like chess and esport as well.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#284

Post by uniqueid »

raffraffraff wrote: post #258
uniqueid wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That tweet addresses solely weight, but I'm not arguing for categories based solely on weight.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/12979157895... Tweets are a dreadful way to read something like this, which would be easier to suggest in a blog post or paper. But I suppose Twitter gives people the right to respond, so swings-and-roundabouts.

Thanks, the entire thread makes more sense! I want to avoid sounding any more opinionated about sports medicine than I already do, since it's not a subject in which I have any expertise. That said, when I consider that a 'mens' category alone includes both Andre The Giant and Peter Dinklage, it's hard for me to understand how a richer mix of physical attributes could do any worse :)

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#285

Post by [deleted] »

jean_tta wrote: post #269
dncornholio wrote: post #264

This problem is made artificial difficult. It's simple: born as a man? Sport like a man. Born as a women? Sport like women. Gender in sport is not about identity, it's about biology. Also it creates a huge backdoor to Olympic gold medals. There's nothing that stops turning the female category into all transgender..

Should FtM people, taking testosterone, compete with cis-women?

[deleted]

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#286

Post by dncornholio »

jean_tta wrote: post #269
dncornholio wrote: post #264

This problem is made artificial difficult. It's simple: born as a man? Sport like a man. Born as a women? Sport like women. Gender in sport is not about identity, it's about biology. Also it creates a huge backdoor to Olympic gold medals. There's nothing that stops turning the female category into all transgender..

Should FtM people, taking testosterone, compete with cis-women?

If those testosterone's are not a banned substance, then sure. Why not?

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#287

Post by 3grdlurker »

uniqueid wrote: post #184
nimbleal wrote: post #126

I may be a few years behind on terminology (?) but surely sports has everything to do with sex and nothing to do with gender? No one cares what pronouns an athlete uses, how they dress, what roles and behaviours society traditionally assigns/expects of them and how they respond to those traditions. They care entirely about biological advantages and disadvantages. So the division is based on — again unsure of the term…

sports has everything to do with sex and nothing to do with gender Dividing by sex is a substitute for dividing by the things that really matter: height, weight, strength, bone density, etc. If sports grouped competitors by a combination of those attributes, it would solve a lot of issues, including debate over transgender athletes.

> Dividing by sex is a substitute for dividing by the things that really matter: height, weight, strength, bone density, etc.

You crucially missed an important variable which competitive sports of any kind fully hinge upon: skeletal muscle density… which hugely differs across biological sexes.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#288

Post by nvarsj »

fruityrudy wrote: post #210

Imagine a giant athlete the size of Arnold Schwarzenegger at his peak decides to transition and has to match a testosterone level to compete. Lol. It’s ridiculous.

It's truly an insane decision by the IoC and I'm sure the backlash will hurt the trans community. This is a privileged white male, the son of a billionaire (Dick Hubbard, founder of Hubbard foods) who didn't transition until they were 35. Prior to that they were a washed up male competitor who would never in their dreams make the Olympics. And now, they are displacing one of the best female weight lifters. No wonder people are pissed.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#289

Post by onion2k »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #16

I feel like with this issue at some point we are bound to reach a breaking point. It's just a question of how far along things will go before we get there. People are more and more open about being transgender and there is more and more support for transgender individuals having the chance to live life as their correct gender. This is a great thing! However, it presents a huge problem for women's athletics, particula…

we are going to continue to see huge increases in openly transgender people competing in sport

We're discussing literally the first trans woman to compete at the Olympics. Obviously going from 0 to 1 is a huge increase in percentage terms, but there's no evidence that it's going to continue to the point where women's sports are 'destabilised'.

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