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Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

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Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#291

Post by IncRnd »

ksaj wrote: post #284
IncRnd wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. However, I'm not sure that is correct. There are several types of professionals who typically diagnose ADHD. These include: physicians (especially psychiatrists, pediatricians, neurologists), psychologists, social workers, nurse practitioners, and other licensed counselors or therapists (e.g. professional counselors, marriage and family therapists, etc.). [1] Some examples of professionals who are capable…

That is interesting that some of them are authorized to diagnose, but can't write a prescription to control it. I guess that's why they'll all eventually send you to a "specialist," which is another way of saying "someone authorized to medicate you for this." I'm not sure though - physicians can prescribe Ritalin, but at least here, they always send you off to be checked out by a psychiatrist first.

That makes sense to me. Of course, I'm not disputing the existence of specialists. A nurse practitioner or pediatrician may not have the most familiarity or want to deal with the issue.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#292

Post by carrolldunham »

dlhavema wrote: post #289
astrange wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with ADHD is that it applies to everything in your life, not just work. You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series. Actually, they're even harder to do than work because there's no pressure on you to keep up with it.

Hmm. Could that be why I fail to be a completionist in games? I play computer games, but don't give a rip about achievements or multiple playthroughs... They are fun, but as soon as I beat it, I move on.

You're joking right? You move on from a fun activity when it stops being fun you so think you may have a disorder? I don't want to seem insensitive to genuinely troubled individuals but there seems to be a pattern on HN where every single topic about productivity is now swamped with people claiming that "ADHD" is the cause of not caring about things that aren't worth caring about and not trying hard when you don't need to, etc., all of this being completely rational. It seems like a collective delusion or something akin to a dysmorphia.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#293

Post by astrange »

Gravyness wrote: post #290
astrange wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with ADHD is that it applies to everything in your life, not just work. You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series. Actually, they're even harder to do than work because there's no pressure on you to keep up with it.

I hate to be this condescending but why is this not just ordinary laziness? Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus? Isn't it more likely that a constant stream of never ending notifications and interruptions decrease our attention span to seconds? You can't read a book because you can't read an article, and you can't read and article because yo…

> Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus?

> You can work to fix this.

Going to a doctor is "working to fix it", and it's a lot of work to keep the prescriptions filled since nobody will give you more than 30 days supply of the useful medicines. There is plenty of other stuff you can do. It's just none of it works unless you do the medication first.

If you don't have the physical causes of ADHD, the medication won't help much, but other things like therapy or going on vacation will. With ADHD it's the opposite.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#294

Post by PragmaticPulp »

uh_uh wrote: post #170
borski wrote: post #150

Read up a bit on ADHD. That 'hyperfocus' that occurs either with deadlines or on a passion project is a symptom, as is the inability to get excited about projects you simply don't want to do - especially given your otherwise positive reviews and your ability to clear your mind and hyperfocus near a deadline, it's something to consider. I was diagnosed at 33, and it changed my life infinitely for the better. YMMV, and…

Isn't it just rational not to get excited about boring stuff that is rewarded by a fix monetary ceiling? Economically it completely makes sense: why put more energy into something that yields the same result either way? Or maybe I have ADHD too.

Yes, it's becoming common misconception online that hyperfocus is indicative of ADHD. That's a misunderstanding of the symptom.

The concept of hyperfocus in ADHD was introduced in certain literature to explain a reduced ability of certain ADHD patients to control their attention, such as having difficulty stopping playing a video game to do the dishes. However, that's ambiguously close to normal human behavior of preferring to do fun tasks more than un-fun tasks, so the distinction is best left to professionals.

Regardless, it wouldn't really apply to the OP's description anyway, as accomplishing necessary work tasks before deadlines when necessary isn't the same as someone drawn to fun activities like video games or TV.

As always, it's best to consult professionals. Internet medical advice, especially about ADHD, is increasingly wrong online. It's also worth noting that the concept of "hyperfocus" doesn't even appear in most accepted definitions of ADHD, and isn't considered in diagnostic tests. The idea of "hyperfocus" in ADHD is relatively limited to a few authors and one recent blurb in some European clinical definitions from 2019.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#295

Post by throwaway743 »

darkerside wrote: post #278
astrange wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with ADHD is that it applies to everything in your life, not just work. You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series. Actually, they're even harder to do than work because there's no pressure on you to keep up with it.

These all seem like normal human activities to me, tbh

It's more of an issue of organizing and properly prioritizing one's thoughts, along with the irl output being misaligned. This usually results in an incredible amount frustration that gets fed back into the thought loop and frequently causes confusion, which that confusion contributes to the above and can lead to depression and/or anxiety (both in my case unfortunately).

The struggle is more than the simplistic description of "this is not interesting. It bores me", it's really "my brain is uncomfortably overwhelmed with coordinating my thoughts with the tasks at hand to the point of feeling angry/anxious/down/, but oooo I could just cook a familiar recipe which won't require much thinking and can relieve me of, and potentially help with, this mental situation". It's complicated and requires a lot of "tricks" to deal with it. This is the case whether there are tasks to do, if one is just reflecting in thought, thinking up ideas, conversing, reading, etc... even writing this has taken me 10-15 minutes tbh...

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#296

Post by yumaikas »

Gravyness wrote: post #290
astrange wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with ADHD is that it applies to everything in your life, not just work. You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series. Actually, they're even harder to do than work because there's no pressure on you to keep up with it.

I hate to be this condescending but why is this not just ordinary laziness? Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus? Isn't it more likely that a constant stream of never ending notifications and interruptions decrease our attention span to seconds? You can't read a book because you can't read an article, and you can't read and article because yo…

ADHD is a very well studied medical phenomenon, which results from physical differences from the brain. When it does apply, getting the right kind of help can be life changing.

And even if it is "ordinary laziness", that doesn't mean that seeking confirmation of it something is ADHD or not is a bad exercise, if you can afford it. The lack of motivation also is a very good sign that the OP is heavily disconnected from their work, and needs to find another job or lifestyle, especially if it's this bad and they don't have ADHD.

If it is ADHD, then you have confirmation of a very helpful community and set of medical and psychological tools that you can apply, and you can ignore vast amounts of advice that just doesn't work for people with ADHD.

> Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus?

Modern society can be very inflexible if you're in the wrong spot, and don't have the ability to explain why the fit is so bad.

Lastly, many people who do have ADHD have been told that they are lazy or haven't lived to their potential their entire lives. They know they don't fit in. They pick over their brains, looking for ways to do better, trying ways to do better. They are, as a population, far more self-examined than the norm. They don't need your doubt, they have plenty of their own.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#297

Post by yumaikas »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #264
stavros wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oof, this video makes me think I may have ADHD. I just cannot get boring things done, and I get more stressed the more I procrastinate, and it just spirals. What has helped me is something that the video mentions too, and that's working with a coworker. Not so much pairing (as in, looking at each other's screen), but just saying "I'm working on X now" and feeling like someone else is working on their thing alongside…

Checking in for accountability like this is a really REALLY common ADHD coping skill.

The common term for it I've seen online is Body Doubling, though that might be a more specific variation.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#298

Post by whb07 »

tspike wrote: post #225
degrews wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is exactly why I've concluded trying to go my own way is the best long-term plan for me. Before learning about YC and HN and such, the thought never really occurred to me. Interesting. It also didn't really occur to me that being an employee might just not be for me, until I read this comment on HN over a year ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22520709 . Although the reasoning is a somewhat different fr…

I'd love to do that, but health insurance in the US makes it a nonstarter.

Cash is still king and joining something like kaiser is like $230/month for sub 30 yo.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#299

Post by ljoshua »

tspike wrote: post #225
degrews wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is exactly why I've concluded trying to go my own way is the best long-term plan for me. Before learning about YC and HN and such, the thought never really occurred to me. Interesting. It also didn't really occur to me that being an employee might just not be for me, until I read this comment on HN over a year ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22520709 . Although the reasoning is a somewhat different fr…

I'd love to do that, but health insurance in the US makes it a nonstarter.

This really isn't as true as it's made out to be. I've done it, and with four dependents in tow as well.

If you currently work for a big company (or really any company with >50 employees if I recall) you can qualify to take COBRA when you leave. Doing so is expensive, sure, but it's really usually about the same price as private insurance but much better (because it's a group plan). You can elect COBRA for up to 18 months, or 24 in some cases.

When COBRA runs out and you aren't yet in a position where you can have the organization you've founded pay for it, you can either look at joining a PEO or you can simply buy private insurance. Yep, it's definitely not great, but it is coverage. Additionally, if you are doing your own thing, look into setting up an HRA for yourself/your company--it lets the company pay for your medical costs without even when you're buying private insurance.

Not sure how to pay for it out of the gate when you might be pre-revenue for a while? You still have a couple of options. First, saving specifically for this use case makes a lot of sense. Even better, if you are currently in an HSA-compatible plan at work, max out the account for the year because you can use HSA savings to pay for premiums. Or if you have a spouse or SO and can hop on their plan for a while, good call too.

In general, and speaking from the position of someone who has spent far more time than I wish to admit building models and forecasting health expenses for when I was on private insurance and doing my own thing, it can be done. The freedom was definitely worth the price.

Re: Ask HN: Feeling guilty for doing the bare minimum at work

#300

Post by duxup »

zrobotics wrote: post #177
duxup wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work a tech support job overnight. Some nights I'd take two calls. This was expected for the reasons you noted. When there was an emergency someone needed to be idle in the first place so they could immediately respond fully focused.

Same story for me, they just needed someone available for emergencies. As long as I could respond when pinged, they didn't care what I did with my time. My boss came in one morning, saw I was playing Fallout 4 on my (personal) laptop, and just asked if it was any good. I finished a lot of books I wanted to read, and had lots of time for personal projects, but ultimately the boredom and overnight schedule were too muc…

I whish I had been productive.

I played a lot of Civilization 3 and Quake 3 on company time.

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