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U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#51

Post by pm90 »

CyanBird wrote: post #34
FearlessNebula wrote: post #2

I really can’t stand TikTok. It sucks up so much data straight to the Chinese government, I absolutely refuse to use it. But so many good creators are starting to dabble with it, and many of my friends will send me TikTok links that I can’t open.

> It sucks up so much data straight to the Chinese government Do you have a source for this? At least in the case of the US all user data by law must remain in the country, wouldn't surprise me if the same happened on the entirety of the EU

As ByteDance is headquartered in the PRC, I imagine they have to comply with whatever the CCP asks them to do. Similar to how Facebook would have to comply with a US courts subpoena for records even if it belonged to a foreign National, but worse since it’s the Party and not an independent Judiciary making such requests.

Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#52

Post by pm90 »

temp22334455 wrote: post #35

Many people believe disinformation spread on social media is a huge problem. Knowing this, is it really a good idea to give a CCP-controlled company direct access to the minds of our youngest generation?

It’s not and Biden Admins inaction on following through with the previous admins threat is quite a significant action that’s just not getting the press it deserves.

Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#53

Post by angio »

savant_penguin wrote: post #47
angio wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically the companies are allowed to operate in China, but to do so they would need to follow the strict censorship and data sharing rules the Chinese government requires all companies to adopt. That's why, for example, Bing is available in China and Google not.

My impression is that's really just a technicality though. If instead of a total ban imposed on these companies, the US imposed incredibly tough rules tailored for them but that applied to "all" foreigners that made it impossible for these companies to operate, the end result would be the same

> If instead of a total ban imposed on these companies, the US imposed incredibly tough rules tailored for them but that applied to "all" foreigners that made it impossible for these companies to operate, the end result would be the same

Or TikTok would change their business to operate within the limits of the new regulation, which is something that cannot happen with an outright ban. A good compromise is to do like the EU with GDPR and not ban companies directly but still require them to comply with local privacy laws if they want to access the market. Foreign companies that don't want to do it can simply block European users (effectively self-censoring themselves).

Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#54

Post by toastal »

TikTok did recently slip in automatic collection of fingerprints for your voice and face. Not that Facebook isn't doing similar, but legal or not, it may still be wise to encourage friends to not use it.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-pe...

Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#55

Post by throwawayfdjh »

Really embarrassing and shortsighted decision.. As a person whose views align with Sanders, I chose to vote for Trump in 2020 since he's the first world leader to do something meaningful to stand up to China (and quite frankly, Biden had a horrendous China record throughout his political career). I had been cautiously optimistic about the Biden administration when they didn't immediately return to kowtowing to China like the Obama/Biden administration (I even became hopeful that I could finally vote for a democrat again), but I guess it was just a matter of time before he would shoot us in the foot by "playing by the rules" against an enemy that will cheat at every turn.

The democratic approach works great when you're dealing with honest and trustworthy nations that share similar goals and hopes for the future.. but the moment you're dealing with authoritarian dictatorships then the system will fall apart.. it wasn't a big problem before when the authoritarian countries were weak and unable to compete, but we've reached a point where China can easily copy pretty much everything the developed nations are capable of - now add lower wages, 996 work hours, forced labor, support from a government that won't hesitate for a second to block their competitors from entering their billion+ users market, a government that will threaten to do x and y if the country doesn't do z to support their company, etc.

Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#56

Post by corytheboyd »

LatteLazy wrote: post #50
corytheboyd wrote: post #42

Is there tangible, real, honest to god proof that the Chinese government is involved in using TikTok to “steal data”? Because to be honest it sounds like nationalistic nonsense to me. Classic HN, due pedantry on backing up broad statements with sources, except for when it’s about whatever enemy is currently in the spotlight.

This story [0] covers a report that they worked with the CCP to help with the Geoocide against the Uighurs. That's not exactly what you asked for, but I think it contributed to the deeper point: if you do business in China, you give the CCP what they want. If that's Uighur's hiding in cellars or a senator's affair before (s)he votes on tariffs or whatever, it doesn't really make a difference. Don't get me wrong, the…

Thank you for not responding with hostility. I do believe the goals of the Chinese government are nefarious, I mean this quote is pure insanity:

> Together with the Public Security Bureau, Huawei will unlock a new era of smart policing and help build a safer, smarter society

Maybe moves will be made in the future and I’ll look dumb for questioning this. In the mean time I guess I’ll go back to work so that I can pay Uncle Sam to perpetuate the glorious US war machine.

Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#57

Post by daggersandscars »

elliekelly wrote: post #41
dumb1224 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ..have a large operating presence in China (including a political arm of the CCP within the company) I've never heard of this, do you have examples? I'll be happy to read about it. Normally there will be some PR/communication office under marketing sure, but I don't know what a 'political arm' could be.

The NYT’s podcast “The Daily” had a really good episode a few days ago about Apple & China that touches on these sorts of “political” requirements. I think it’s much more subtle (but no less concerning) than parent comment implies. Episode link (w/ transcript): https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/14/podcasts/the-daily/apple-...

Something left out of the podcast: Apple has spent over US$400B (400,000,000,000) buying back stock since 2013Q2. The buybacks started around the same time Tim Cook apologized (April 1, 2013) and have continued, without pause, since.

Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#58

Post by refurb »

nromiun wrote: post #8

> "China has been urging the U.S. side to respect market economy principles and international trade rules, to immediately stop stretching the concept of national security and stop wantonly abusing state power to suppress China's tech companies," spokesman Zhai Lijian said on Tuesday in Beijing. Ironic. I don't suppose they will allow Twitter, Facebook etc in China after this.

International diplomacy is not about doing what’s fair, it’s about doing what you can get away with.

Talking about some principle your opponent isn’t adhering to while violating it at the same time is common place. It’s the same tactic as when China says “how dare the US criticize our actions when they have racial issues of their own”. Of course ignoring that the China human rights violation is official government policy while the US is a policy violation and clearly rejected by the population and government.

Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#59

Post by ectopod »

savant_penguin wrote: post #47
angio wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically the companies are allowed to operate in China, but to do so they would need to follow the strict censorship and data sharing rules the Chinese government requires all companies to adopt. That's why, for example, Bing is available in China and Google not.

My impression is that's really just a technicality though. If instead of a total ban imposed on these companies, the US imposed incredibly tough rules tailored for them but that applied to "all" foreigners that made it impossible for these companies to operate, the end result would be the same

But Chinese companies do have to comply with these rules. China cares about total surveillance more than they care about blocking foreign competitors.

Re: U.S. Commerce Department rescinds TikTok, WeChat prohibited transactions list

#60

Post by tablespoon »

angio wrote: post #32
nromiun wrote: post #8

> "China has been urging the U.S. side to respect market economy principles and international trade rules, to immediately stop stretching the concept of national security and stop wantonly abusing state power to suppress China's tech companies," spokesman Zhai Lijian said on Tuesday in Beijing. Ironic. I don't suppose they will allow Twitter, Facebook etc in China after this.

Technically the companies are allowed to operate in China, but to do so they would need to follow the strict censorship and data sharing rules the Chinese government requires all companies to adopt. That's why, for example, Bing is available in China and Google not.

> but to do so they would need to follow the strict...data sharing rules the Chinese government requires all companies to adopt.

A.K.A government surveillance and anti-privacy rules. For instance, I believe various data leaks have proved that Chinese police (down to the local level) get a literal feed of all public and private social media messages sent over Chinese apps. There's also a video floating around of some poor schmuck locked in a tiger chair by some Chinese police, being forced to apologize for talking smack about them in a private chat.

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