Live data from Hacker News

Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

ntdotdev.wordpress.com

381–390 of 432 posts

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#381
post #5

Anyone finally willing to admit that w10 is unusable on Hard Drives while Linux and W7 work fine on them?

Not a perfect comparison, but I have a Windows 10 box I built with a small M2 NVMe SSD boot drive, but a lot of apps -- including notably Steam games, OneDrive, and the browser Downloads folder -- runs off a larger 7200rpm hard drive. I've never felt any slowness and everything is blazing fast. It's got 16GB RAM, though.

I know a lot of cheap machines have 5400rpm hard drives, I wonder if 7200rpm+ drives will offer a better experience. Also what role RAM plays in user experience.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#382
post #9

On my current gaming PC (i7-7700) I have installed W10 in 2017 and... no problem whatsoever? SSD, 10s boot. idk how do people end up with all the problems. I'm really curious because there must be an underlying reason

I think the Startup Processes really gets abused and people default to blame Windows for it. My time to a usable desktop seemed slow until I removed Teams, Steam, Dropbox and some other update utilities from Startup. Now it's pretty much instant.

If you think it's fast now, just wait til you remove Windows!

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benchmarks are hard to compare. He's using a VM and a fairly small amount of RAM (I don't know of many PCs only shipping with 4GB RAM these days). I can say that Word takes about 2 seconds to open on my system, but I'm not running in a VM and I have 48GB RAM, so Windows can cache a lot to optimize opening times.

4GB is actually pretty common for "budget" laptops in india. Check out Amazon.in and search for laptops. Anything above 40,000 inr is in the higher than budget, cheap range. For the past few years, there has been a trend of buying refurbished devices. Laptops and desktops. I bought a Dell e7440 with I7 5th gen I think and 4GB RAM. For 22,000 bucks. I had to upgrade to 8 gigs myself but 4 is pretty standard here. Oh,…

4GB is just criminal these days - running a few modern and/or memory intensive apps like Chrome on Windows in 2021 is just a dreadful experience.

I can't believe that over two decades after x64/64 bit was introduced that manufacturers still think it's 2001 and "4GB is just enough to qualify getting past the 4GB 32 bit limit"...

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benchmarks are hard to compare. He's using a VM and a fairly small amount of RAM (I don't know of many PCs only shipping with 4GB RAM these days). I can say that Word takes about 2 seconds to open on my system, but I'm not running in a VM and I have 48GB RAM, so Windows can cache a lot to optimize opening times.

4GB is actually pretty common for "budget" laptops in india. Check out Amazon.in and search for laptops. Anything above 40,000 inr is in the higher than budget, cheap range. For the past few years, there has been a trend of buying refurbished devices. Laptops and desktops. I bought a Dell e7440 with I7 5th gen I think and 4GB RAM. For 22,000 bucks. I had to upgrade to 8 gigs myself but 4 is pretty standard here. Oh,…

Apart from purchasing power, laptops in India are expensive because of high levels of tax (28% GST I think, which would be higher than what Sweden charges). I'm not sure if import duties apply on top of this as well.

The reality is that any laptop with 4GB RAM and a 5400rpm hard drive and running a modern OS won't give a great user experience. ChromeOS on Chromebooks could be an exception, but even cheap Chromebooks have small EMM/eMMC cards instead of 5400rpm drives.

If you have such a system, a lightweight distro such as Lubuntu will probably give you a much better time.

For Windows 10, 8GB RAM + any SSD seems to be the minimum usable configuration.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#385
post #72
post #9

On my current gaming PC (i7-7700) I have installed W10 in 2017 and... no problem whatsoever? SSD, 10s boot. idk how do people end up with all the problems. I'm really curious because there must be an underlying reason

Sometimes it isn't all that simple. My work laptop runs W10. At some point in the last 3 months or so, an update came in and fucked up Windows Explorer. About 5 times in a work day I need to use Task Manager to reboot Windows Explorer because the following things stop working: - Cannot type into the start menu (the entire menu goes black. If I backspace anything I typed -despite not being able to see it- it will work…

Interesting! On my computer:

- Applications do not gain focus. When a new application is launched, it starts at the bottom of the window stack. I can't even alt-tab to it easily because it's all the way at the end of the list.

- Start menu is a crapshoot. Sometimes it doesn't open when I press the start key (but always when I click).

- Once Start (eventually) opens, Search is a crapshoot. I'm not even talking about documents (although I'm usually better off using git-bash's `find` command despite the search indexer regularly using 30% of my CPU) -- I mean I can't even type half the time. Of which half of that time, the start menu turns white (but only most parts of it?).

So my workflow for using the Start menu is, I often have to mash the Start key 5 or so times just to start typing.

What do I use it for? Mostly launching programs. Eg. last night, I typed Half Life 2. When I type the first few letters of "Half", the correct result shows up. But if I type "Half Life" it goes away because I didn't use a hyphen (seriously).

- Explorer has 2-3 second lags. I don't just mean opening it, I mean every damn operation. The funniest part is, if you have Sublime text open at the same time, you can see that the changes to a folder actually take place INSTANTLY (and Sublime detects and displays them within a few milliseconds of your action in another program) but Explorer, in which you did the action will take another 2-3 seconds to display its own changes. (?????!!!)

If it did all of this on day one I probably would have thrown my computer down a long staircase, but it's been such a gradual deterioration that this is just my life now.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#386
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have experience with W10+HDD, but note that modern HDDs have started to adopt SMR which can lead to slower writes. It's possible slowness comes from that direction and not just W10.

I have several DM-SMR drives and their write cache (when not completely full) is like 50-100 GB large. As long as you don't write more than that in one go it performs exactly like a normal hard drive of their stature. When they're idle they'll merge the write cache into the main SMR region. Sequential writes mostly end up going straight to the SMR region (there is no idle-reorganization after them). SMR is also only…

>SMR is also only used in fairly high capacity drives. A 1/2/4 TB drive wouldn't be SMR.

I thought so too, until I bought a 2TB and discovered it's SMR. It turns out there are quite a few 4TB SMRs, and also 2TB and even 1TB SMRs. e.g.

https://www.truenas.com/community/resources/list-of-known-sm...

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#387
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s wild. I remember when windows XP came out I was amazed it was so large. The OS was 300 megabytes or something - and it took up a significant portion of my computer’s hard drive. Despite all of Microsoft’s claims about “media enhancements” it seemed horribly bloated and ugly. It was the embarrassing stepchild of windows 2000 - which I still adore. How times have changed!

Windows2000 was the best windows ever, from the speed to the look, the simplicity...just perfect.

Mine was NT4... but without DirectX and no games

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#388
post #5

Anyone finally willing to admit that w10 is unusable on Hard Drives while Linux and W7 work fine on them?

This has been precisely my experience. Windows 7 was fast on an HDD and blazing fast on a SSD. Windows 10 is unusable on an HDD and usable on an SSD. Still kinda sluggish, even then, for what it's worth. Not to mention the applications. A slow operating system that uses so much resources merely idling plus Applications-That-Are-Actually-Web-Browsers make day to day usage almost innavigable for someone with quick refl…

And it would constantly apply updates and reboot without a prompt.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#389
post #71
post #5

Anyone finally willing to admit that w10 is unusable on Hard Drives while Linux and W7 work fine on them?

Why do people still expect modern software to run at incredible speeds on hard disk drives? Run old technology with old software. It is ridiculous that consumer hardware is still being sold with crappy 5400 RPM disks in 2021. No, I have no interest in optimising my software for speeds that are 1/10th of my broadband. Unless we're talking archival or huge storage necessities, stop complaining about modern OS or games…

>Do you expect Windows 10 to run on a Pentium II with 512MB RAM as well, because some version of Linux does?

Void Linux, Debian, Slackware... just fine. Maybe with 720p video with a good Radeon 9800 video card for the AGP bus. But a Pentium III with SSE would run much better.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you expect Windows 10 to run on a Pentium II with 512MB RAM as well, because some version of Linux does? ...Yes? What is it doing that wouldn't fit in those constraints?

I do not absolutely get this obtuse question. It is not my place to justify why modern software is so inefficient, pointing the finger to Windows 10 in particular as if it's an outlier. Why are YOU using inefficient languages, heavyweight virtual machines, GB sized binaries, Electron and Javascript to write your applications? Why is your boss asking to add feature upon feature upon feature? There is a reason we're in…

I am using an AMD Turion with 2GB of RAM with Void Linux and XFCE.

I don't care on software "engineers" if you are a bunch of engineer wannabes where in my country in order to be an enginner you should be able to write your own OS from scratch and learn lots of linear algebra.

Post reply on HN