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Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

adamcadre.ac

751–760 of 764 posts

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teachers don't like teachers being social services. They are right. That doesn't mean they are opposed to schools providing social services. Families getting fed at school like getting fed. They aren't opposed to eating.

I didn't say "opposed". Parents expect teachers to teach and teachers expect to teach. But the job decription is changing and inconsistent -- both at the high level of "what is a school" and the low level of "what should I, as a teacher, try to accomplish today?". Goals are unclear right now. That, by itself, is bad. We need an explicit decision here, and that needs to be communicated to everyone involved.

> Parents expect teachers to teach and teachers expect to teach

As the child of a public grade school teacher (early childhood), I would suggest you go visit some Title I schools and ask lower income parents there what they expect from the school with respect to their children.

What you're being told in this thread: they will say they're happy to have a place that will take care of their kids while they're working, keep them reasonably safe, provide them food, keep them busy, and educate them

What you seem to think they would say: education their kids to the highest level possible

When there aren't consistent meals, access to health care, or clothing at home, and when home is a place of violence and/or substance abuse, priorities look a lot different.

All of these are things that were not uncommon, year after year. That's the reality public school teachers and administrators have to deal with.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#752

I’ve noticed that in the time since I was a kid, the focus of public school has shifted from about the 40th percentile student to the 5th percentile student. In my school, the entire focus of the operation was the decent student... the one who showed up, put in a decent effort, did at least three quarters of their homework. The school had tremendous resources for these kids to go to college, and the very best college…

This was the explicit and intended result of No Child Left Behind. Schools were only given incentives to make kids pass, not to help them excel.

If we're being honest, no one was willing to work at or fund helping kids excel. It's just too huge of a problem.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these failing school systems (Baltimore, MD & Prince George’s County, MD) have some of the highest budgets per pupil in the country. The problem isn’t money.

I think numbers might lie a bit there. If the function of education is to provide an even starting point for kids regardless of their personal environment, it stands to reason that in places where those personal environments are worse you'd need brutal amounts of resources, since you'll indirectly be covering for parents' neglect, psychological issues, and other factors that should have been handled somewhere else bu…

Bingo.

One kid has access to books and parents who read with them at home every night.

Another kid has no books at home and no learning support after they leave school.

How much is it going to cost to teach each child to read at the same proficiency level?

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#754
post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think numbers might lie a bit there. If the function of education is to provide an even starting point for kids regardless of their personal environment, it stands to reason that in places where those personal environments are worse you'd need brutal amounts of resources, since you'll indirectly be covering for parents' neglect, psychological issues, and other factors that should have been handled somewhere else bu…

Bingo. One kid has access to books and parents who read with them at home every night. Another kid has no books at home and no learning support after they leave school. How much is it going to cost to teach each child to read at the same proficiency level?

Agreed. The problem I see is that certain failing school systems (and individual pupils elsewhere) are quagmires of spending. There are cohorts of students you could spend infinite resources on at school and they would not learn. This is why the top-level parent comment focuses on ROI, and I think it is a harsh perspective which is necessary nonetheless.

A school can only do so much to offset the negative impacts of poor home-life. Learned helplessness is real and debilitating and it is often learned at home at a young age. I empathize with the tax payers in this area who see above-average taxes for below-average results.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#755
post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. One kid has access to books and parents who read with them at home every night. Another kid has no books at home and no learning support after they leave school. How much is it going to cost to teach each child to read at the same proficiency level?

Agreed. The problem I see is that certain failing school systems (and individual pupils elsewhere) are quagmires of spending. There are cohorts of students you could spend infinite resources on at school and they would not learn. This is why the top-level parent comment focuses on ROI, and I think it is a harsh perspective which is necessary nonetheless. A school can only do so much to offset the negative impacts of…

ROI is only irrelevant in a post-scarcity society. Everywhere else, choices have to be made. :(

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#756
post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If certain demographics are heavily underrepresented (and I don't know if it's the case here), either we must assume that they are less smart (and so produce less "high school material") or we must acknowledge that there is some form of discrimination. The latter being almost certainly true Is this what the evidence suggests or what you wish to be true?

> Is this what the evidence suggests or what you wish to be true? Yes, evidence suggests that blacks and Indians and whatnot are not dumber than whites and that foreigners are not dumber than the locals.

I would love to see this evidence if you could link it, particularly regarding people of sub saharan african origin. I've been trying to kick my racism ever since I learnt about the measured IQ (and other intelectual achievement) average differences.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#757
post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. One kid has access to books and parents who read with them at home every night. Another kid has no books at home and no learning support after they leave school. How much is it going to cost to teach each child to read at the same proficiency level?

Agreed. The problem I see is that certain failing school systems (and individual pupils elsewhere) are quagmires of spending. There are cohorts of students you could spend infinite resources on at school and they would not learn. This is why the top-level parent comment focuses on ROI, and I think it is a harsh perspective which is necessary nonetheless. A school can only do so much to offset the negative impacts of…

I get your point, but (also with a harsh perspective) the point isn't really to create engineers and doctors from the downtrodden.

The point is that even if you get those kids even 10% of the way of others, that might be what buys you one less person between bars. Or suffering from substance abuse. Or fueling Ponzi schemes, MLM or cults as a victim. Or living in the streets. Or voting irrationally for the next populist policy maker (in any part of the political spectrum, not being political here).

The moment you renounce to killing all of those who misbehave, you have to accept that these people are going to be your neighbors for the foreseeable future, and so it really pays to take care of the problem as early as possible, because frankly, you'll be spending resources either way.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#758
post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory behind this is NOT that the poor students will become productive and valuable members of society. It is that they will become criminals if you don’t do everything you can for them, and one criminal is more costly to society than the marginal benefits of that money to 100 successful students.

I'm going to repeat some stuff I said in a sibling comment, but OP mentions students who actually set $#!+ on fire at their school, and the only semblance of correctional action for this serious, criminal behavior was five days(!) of in-school suspension. No mention of police being seriously involved, as would be entirely proper given these circumstances. This is emphatically not how you'd try to save these kids from…

I’m not sure that is exactly true. I’m not personally concerned with agents of chaos, but I am concerned with those that would victimize others to get what they want. I don’t know how to stop that. Some say the option of stable employment helps, so they get pushed through to graduation. I would personally choose a different path, such as holding public trial as in the real world, with academic punishments, and juvie if they don’t comply. But it’s probably far more complicated than I imagine.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is this: Ban anyone... The solution is to get rid of the monopolistic education system which is prone to imbalances and subpar results. Charter schools/private school/school choice. Recruit the best teacher, pay the best salaries, achieve the best educational outcomes. No wonder the educational system looks like it does given the incentives at play.

You're describing the Baltimore school system. I don't think you're arguing for the outcome you think you're arguing for.

On the contrary, https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-op-0813-...

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#760
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite the straw man you've built there. Nobody is talking about forcing the high achievers to do the teacher's job. The question is how we allocate the fixed amount of educational resources we have. You want us to choose the high achievers so that these early winners can turn that lead into even greater success later. Unstated in your post is what happens to those low achieving students. But it's pretty easy t…

> That's quite the straw man you've built there. > Nobody is talking about forcing the high achievers to do the teacher's job. On the contrary, people can be quite explicit about this.

Indeed, it was only a couple days until an example popped up right here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27586576
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