Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update? • Hacker News Board

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#261

Post by ksec » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 1:55 AM UTC

samplatt wrote: post #247

moth-fuzz wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been precisely my experience. Windows 7 was fast on an HDD and blazing fast on a SSD. Windows 10 is unusable on an HDD and usable on an SSD. Still kinda sluggish, even then, for what it's worth. Not to mention the applications. A slow operating system that uses so much resources merely idling plus Applications-That-Are-Actually-Web-Browsers make day to day usage almost innavigable for someone with quick refl…

>almost innavigable for someone with quick reflexes My few short years with Windows 3.1+ spoiled me for all future versions of windows. Instant closing, instant alt-tabbing, double-clicking the top-left corner icon to close, (nearly) instant opening of simple apps like File Manager and Notepad... not to mention the instant crashes. Linux got close but still always felt clunky, while future versions of Windows and Mac…

That is what I have been banging on about for years. Latency added, not just in Software, but in Hardware as well from Display, Keyboard, Mouse and even Network. The past 20+ years the whole industry nearly went all out on optimising for throughput.

Sometimes I look at macOS, Windows 10. Apart from some UI facelift I dont even remember a single user feature that was relevant or important in the past 5 years. Apart from latency added cause of feature bloat

The beauty of Gaming is that there are finally some incentives for people to work on the issue.

And a video from Microsoft Research on 1ms Latency

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#262

Post by Silhouette » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:03 AM UTC

FpUser wrote: post #237

jokoon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this argument, could you explain why modern software cannot run on old hardware? It sounds like it's justifying planned obsolescence.

That depends. Many developers are now using Electron, .NET and other tech to develop software. Those are heavy and do not like old computers with limited resources." My desktop products are made in Delphi (compiles to native code) and are very responsive and frugal on resources. Run fine on very old hardware. Desktop products done in C++ would be even better but I am not masochistic enough to develop GUI in C++. At l…

Is performance really comparable between .Net and Electron now? Neither is my specialty but anecdotally I see far more criticism of Electron for its slowness.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#263

Post by HKH2 » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #228

boba7 wrote: post #5

Anyone finally willing to admit that w10 is unusable on Hard Drives while Linux and W7 work fine on them?

but why we should care about this? insanely fast NVMe M2 disks are cheap, let alone normal SSDs.

The OS is for the system, not the system the OS.

Besides, if everyone bought faster storage, would that get people to write more efficient software?

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#264

Post by Wowfunhappy » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

samplatt wrote: post #247

moth-fuzz wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been precisely my experience. Windows 7 was fast on an HDD and blazing fast on a SSD. Windows 10 is unusable on an HDD and usable on an SSD. Still kinda sluggish, even then, for what it's worth. Not to mention the applications. A slow operating system that uses so much resources merely idling plus Applications-That-Are-Actually-Web-Browsers make day to day usage almost innavigable for someone with quick refl…

>almost innavigable for someone with quick reflexes My few short years with Windows 3.1+ spoiled me for all future versions of windows. Instant closing, instant alt-tabbing, double-clicking the top-left corner icon to close, (nearly) instant opening of simple apps like File Manager and Notepad... not to mention the instant crashes. Linux got close but still always felt clunky, while future versions of Windows and Mac…

I'd be curious to know what you think of Haiku, if you've ever tried it.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#265

Post by cshokie » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #255

sph wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people still expect modern software to run at incredible speeds on hard disk drives? Run old technology with old software. It is ridiculous that consumer hardware is still being sold with crappy 5400 RPM disks in 2021. No, I have no interest in optimising my software for speeds that are 1/10th of my broadband. Unless we're talking archival or huge storage necessities, stop complaining about modern OS or games…

Being blunt: you're a terrible developer if you think like that. What the heck does it matter if 5400 RPM disks are old technology or not?? Do you have any actual reason that your program runs slowly on such hardware? It's very arrogant to assume that since you can afford to upgrade to the latest technologies, then everyone who can't should be left behind. There are probably billions of people using spinning rust in…

(Not the OP)

The issue is that the speed -characteristics- are so very different between HDDs and SSDs. Not just the raw speed. Decent performance of anything with IO on an HDD requires that the IO is specifically structured to minimize seeks and maximize sequential access. That takes time and skill. If very few modern machines don’t have an SSD then it is understandable to simply skip this difficulty. That time and effort is often better spent elsewhere, and this is a valid tradeoff to make.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#266

Post by MonaroVXR » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:18 AM UTC

ggregoire wrote: post #53

My up-to-date Windows 10 on a 3 years old desktop takes 9 seconds to boot (I just benchmarked it). I don't remember it being way faster before. So I wonder how OP gets 34 seconds, and how he went from 13 to 34 seconds over a couple of updates. Mine definitely didn't get 21 seconds slower.

Probably OP is using a laptop.

There are differences, but I've read a lot of comments and a lot of people aren't specific. So it's difficult to judge.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#267

Post by marcosdumay » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:20 AM UTC

nso wrote: post #238

marcosdumay wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Win10 is perfectly fine on HDDs. You just have to install Linux on the bare metal, and create a Win10 VM leaving at least 3GB of RAM to the Linux caches. This is faster than W10 on bare metal with SSD and the same physical amount of RAM.

Why is this?

I have a little idea. I know Windows does a lot of useless disk access¹, but I never thought it was localized before I tried a VM. I always assumed it was random, but it looks like it's kinda random, but all over the same small area, and Windows can't optimize it for some reason.

Anyway, if you do that, you better keep those ~3GB free. If you don't have enough cache things break down really fast.

1 - It is for cortana, file indexing, telemetry, and etc. If you take the time to disable them, your computer will get much faster... for about a week, until it updates again.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#268

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:21 AM UTC

TheCapn wrote: post #72

haunter wrote: post #9

On my current gaming PC (i7-7700) I have installed W10 in 2017 and... no problem whatsoever? SSD, 10s boot. idk how do people end up with all the problems. I'm really curious because there must be an underlying reason

Sometimes it isn't all that simple. My work laptop runs W10. At some point in the last 3 months or so, an update came in and fucked up Windows Explorer. About 5 times in a work day I need to use Task Manager to reboot Windows Explorer because the following things stop working: - Cannot type into the start menu (the entire menu goes black. If I backspace anything I typed -despite not being able to see it- it will work…

[deleted]

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#269

Post by MonaroVXR » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

bruce343434 wrote: post #158

asciimov wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait, one day you will have an update to linux and suddenly your whole system wont boot. This doesn't happen often, I've only had it happen 2 or 3 times in 10 years. It is good practice to have a restore thumbdrive around ready to go just in case.

The amount of times that my manjaro installation broke itself after a "full" system upgrade lacked appropriate gpu driver updates... From an OS that supposedly uses upstream Arch repos as a sort of guinea pig and waits until the dust settles upstream to roll out the updates. After a while it gets old to have to press shift and advanced-boot-options my way into the older kernel. Both Windows and Linux are not perfect.…

Manjaro is not a good choice. I don't have any arguments ready right now.

Choose something else:

New hardware? Fedora Otherwise Pop!_OS or Debian Unstable

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#270

Post by scrps » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:26 AM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #252

scrps wrote: post #217

This is purely speculation and observation but I had to disable all the anti-telemetry hacks on my (aging) W10 gaming desktop and I noticed a marked increase in latency in everything from opening a folder to launching simple applications. Once I re-enabled all the patches the latency seem to vanish. I have no data or hard evidence to back any of this up so take it with a large grain of salt.

What's the fastest way to configure this?

The two apps I have used in the past have been O&O ShutUp10[1] and SharpApp[2].

1: https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

2: https://github.com/builtbybel/sharpapp