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We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

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Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#171

Post by closeparen »

ecf wrote: post #55
lastofthemojito wrote: post #12

I think a lot of the responses to the straw man's questions are reasonable and thoughtful. But I think this sentiment: >I don't want to change the way I work, I just want people to join me in the office. My kids are driving me crazy. Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I miss my office friends. Deserves more respect. There are lot of types of people out there, and it seems like at least some of them are energized by being…

On the contrary, I feel it deserves LESS respect. Treating the office as an escape from an undesirable at-home situation and then having the audacity to try to force more people to be in-person is incredibly selfish behavior. If these people truly need that social interaction, how about putting more effort into community/personal relationships instead of workplace relationships?

I would be open to a remote working arrangement that was truly asocial. The problem is you still want all the normal social features of working relationships - meetings, collaboration, mentorship, collective commitment and sacrifice towards a shared vision - in a remote context. The imitation of a team over Zoom carries, for me, all of the costs (higher costs, even) but none of the benefits. Empty calories. From my end it's you, prospective remote colleague, selfishly offering a raw deal.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#172

Post by ChrisArchitect »

from previous threads,

"I like working from home when everybody is working from home"

is not the same thing as

"I like working from home when some people are working from home and some people are grabbing lunch with the boss",

and I think a lot of us are about to figure that out.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#173

Post by anoncake »

dilippkumar wrote: post #31
lastofthemojito wrote: post #12

I think a lot of the responses to the straw man's questions are reasonable and thoughtful. But I think this sentiment: >I don't want to change the way I work, I just want people to join me in the office. My kids are driving me crazy. Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I miss my office friends. Deserves more respect. There are lot of types of people out there, and it seems like at least some of them are energized by being…

>I don't want to change the way I work I understand. > I just want people to join me in the office. Not cool, don’t make me change my lifestyle. > My kids are driving me crazy. I understand. > Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I understand. > I miss my office friends. I understand.

You don't get to force everyone out of the office and complain when you're forced to "change your lifestyle" when things recover to normal.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#174

Post by anoncake »

dragontamer wrote: post #20
robbie-c wrote: post #6

I've tried a bunch of online whiteboard tools to design stuff (where stuff could be system architecture, UI, a business process, whatever), and nothing beats a whiteboard + post-its. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, it's possible, and I'd love to have some great counter-examples. Until then, I think that teams that can meet up in person will, on average, win over those who can't. Other days I just have long list of individu…

11 x 17 inch paper is also pretty useful (the next size up from 8.5 x 11 paper). Unlike a whiteboard, you can prepare 11 x 17 inch paper ahead of time and bring it to a meeting. Including carrying all those random post-it notes in some weird order that you made up. For you Europeans out there... that'd be roughly A3 sized paper.

> For you Europeans out there... that'd be roughly A3 sized paper

Thank you.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#175

Post by grillvogel »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #101
grillvogel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

humans collaborating together, in person, to work on a common goal, has been a thing since humans existed. everyone working individually at home by themselves, only interacting with others digitally is pretty far removed from that. i might go so far as to suggest preferring the latter is what is not normal. having distracting kids at home is not an "undesirable home situation", in fact its a great home sitaution, so…

> humans collaborating together, in person, to work on a common goal, has been a thing since humans existed. It was a very, very rare thing for most people for all of human history until the Industrial Revolution. Yeah, a lot of people helped build StoneHenge and the Pyramids, but most people were just farming (at home) or else hunting/gathering in family units.

it wasn't nuclear families hunting together, it was all the warriors/hunters of the tribe or whatever. that was "going to the office" for them. i wonder how those who wanted to "hunt remotely" would fare in that environment?

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#176

Post by datameta »

duxup wrote: post #64
lastofthemojito wrote: post #12

I think a lot of the responses to the straw man's questions are reasonable and thoughtful. But I think this sentiment: >I don't want to change the way I work, I just want people to join me in the office. My kids are driving me crazy. Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I miss my office friends. Deserves more respect. There are lot of types of people out there, and it seems like at least some of them are energized by being…

Buddy of mine works from home, he hates it because he has a studio apartment and wants to get out of that one room. I'm pretty sympathetic as not everyone's home is handy to work from. Folks with fewer means have smaller homes / fewer resources there. I can afford to outfit a big space, folks with smaller homes / different situations very much can't.

I work with a mobile desk in front of a couch so that when work is done I can either move it aside or switch my monitor input to my personal laptop which really helps compartmentalize work. Once the work laptop is off I have reclaimed the space.

Having said that I feel lucky that I've been able to move to a new apartment recently. Now my partner and I have an extra room to dedicate to being a work space and we're no longer taking up the living room to that end. This is a huge QoL improvement.

I think self-care becomes much more important when one has a limited indoor space that is seeing mixed use. Even just making making sure one takes 1 or 2 walks a day is a huge improvement in energy, mental clarity, motivation, positive outlook, etc.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#177

Post by Buttons840 »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #152
xboxnolifes wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can sympathize with WFH with kids being challenging and even needing a change in norms if it continues, but I'm not sure how it quite applies to single parents in this context. If the single parent is working in an office, then they would need to figure out daycare for their children. If they WFH, they could still use the same daycare, or even save the money of daycare if they take on the burden of taking care of t…

It's a soft thing. "I can't, I have to be in the office" gave you an out. I spoke with a coworker who is expected to still make dinner every night because she is home during every day. There are other situations where you don't want some flexibility because it's not an option you want to openly turn down. It's complicated, buh coming into an office gave an equal slate with everyone else there. It gave boundaries for…

This all seems to boil down to "we should work in the office because some people have personal and family issues". You mentioned privilege, I would consider those who are able to set company policy based on their own personal and family problems as the ones who are privileged.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#178

Post by closeparen »

drewcoo wrote: post #147
topspin wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when the parents indulge the escape of "work" because home is a living nightmare what are we left with to raise the kids? Instragram?

I don't know but I think we need a "scared sterile" program for the kids (similar to "scared straight"). I didn't realize there were so many reluctant parents until COVID. I feel society has coerced people into lives so unhappy that they'd rather spend time at the place everyone else is trying to escape than with their loved ones.

Spreading child-supervision duties around the extended family and community so parents can do other things besides be with their children 24x7 has been a feature of many human cultures for many thousands of years.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#179

Post by WFHRenaissance »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #172

from previous threads, "I like working from home when everybody is working from home" is not the same thing as "I like working from home when some people are working from home and some people are grabbing lunch with the boss", and I think a lot of us are about to figure that out.

LOL, but what if I told you that both my boss and the best IC on the team are perma-remote, and my company still wants me at the office?
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