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We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

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Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#121

Post by lostcolony »

prpl wrote: post #94
mywittyname wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ever happened to social clubs? I remember my grandpa was a member of the Knights of Columbus and would frequently go there to socialize / network. I feel like these clubs used to be pretty common: Scouts, Rotary Club, Moose/Elk Lodge, KoC, Veterans of Foreign Wars (which no longer requires members to be former military), and local cultural/historical clubs are pretty prevalent. I've been to a lot of these clubs…

They have been in a slow decline, along with unions, middle class, and manufacturing, during the rise of the internet and globalization.

Actually, they've seen an uptick over the past decade. Specifically because of the need the OP implies, and younger people becoming aware of their existence. The elks, for instance, had ~800k members back in 2012ish, and are over a million currently.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#122

Post by [deleted] »

wccrawford wrote: post #117
WFHRenaissance wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be the token "15 minute commuter who doesn't want to go back" person (20 minute walk, 15 minute train). It's not all a function of commute. AMA

That's a 35 minute commute. All the travel time is included, not just the mechanized portion.

[deleted]

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#123

Post by RankingMember »

Grimm1 wrote: post #74
ecf wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, I feel it deserves LESS respect. Treating the office as an escape from an undesirable at-home situation and then having the audacity to try to force more people to be in-person is incredibly selfish behavior. If these people truly need that social interaction, how about putting more effort into community/personal relationships instead of workplace relationships?

For what it's worth, without the word option being emphasized here, yours is an equally selfish desire because it brings harm to that person or group of people who prefer the office experience. I liked working in an office, sorry you don't.

Is this comment stating that commuting to an office and dealing with the absence of in-person contact are equally burdensome? One of those things requires (often) buying a vehicle that costs thousands of dollars + maintenance and spending, on average, about an hour a day of their time just commuting (https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/one-way-...). These are not equivalent asks.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#124

Post by SheinhardtWigCo »

ryandrake wrote: post #91
NikolaNovak wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I'm a strong introvert (defined here as somebody who likes people but is drained by socialization). Any given day I'd prefer working at home than from office; will prefer lunch at computer than cafeteria; dinner with friends or "me time" over team-building exercise; being at home with family than in office with co-workers. I'm friendly with my co-workers but we're not out-of-office friends -- I have my own ci…

A lot of the calls for returning to office work boil down to people wanting to be in an environment where there's this "hum" of Serious Business™ being done--the "buzz" of people actively present and Doing Interesting Things. It's not the work itself, but excitement at the performance of work going on around them. Lots of work-from-office folks seem to get a charge out of this excitement. Maybe (and I'm half serious)…

Ah, so those are actors!

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#125

Post by birdyrooster »

prpl wrote: post #102
prpl wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have been in a slow decline, along with unions, middle class, and manufacturing, during the rise of the internet and globalization.

Which is to also say that I think these clubs tended to skew towards a white middle-class without a college education. That is a declining demographic.

What about the Insane Juggalo Nation? They seem fairly active still.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#126

Post by brandon272 »

What I find interesting about work from home and flexible working schedules is that it seems like we are no closer to understanding optimal policy now than 10 years ago. I've seen this discussed on HN over and over and over in the 13 years I've been registered here. A year of WFH transformation under COVID seems to not have broadened our understanding of it, but rather simply exposed more people to the overall debate.

Last week I watched the movie 'Nine to Five', which was released in 1980. In it, the characters were working toward equal pay and flexible work schedules. It was depressing to realize that for many people, what was considered radical in 1980 seems just as radical in 2021.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#127

Post by derekp7 »

danaris wrote: post #103
mywittyname wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ever happened to social clubs? I remember my grandpa was a member of the Knights of Columbus and would frequently go there to socialize / network. I feel like these clubs used to be pretty common: Scouts, Rotary Club, Moose/Elk Lodge, KoC, Veterans of Foreign Wars (which no longer requires members to be former military), and local cultural/historical clubs are pretty prevalent. I've been to a lot of these clubs…

I think a big part of the problem is that most of them have a purpose other than just socializing, that not everyone is necessarily interested in. At least some of them also have fairly high dues. I remember looking into Rotary in my area about 15 years ago, and just feeling like there was no way I could justify paying however much it was per month, even knowing that a lot of Rotary's purpose is to try to do good wor…

I just looked at Rotary Club dues, $36 for 6 months (6 bucks a month). Doesn't seem too bad.

For interest-based groups, I'm constantly seeing large bicycle groups cruising around, so such groups do exist (at least that is one that is openly visible). I periodically will jump in on Linux user group (or similar) meetings in my area too. But they typically have about half a dozen people that show up. I know that hackerspaces were popular in some areas for a while, they may pick up again post-pandemic.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#128

Post by CipherThrowaway »

namanyayg wrote: post #2

I've run my company remotely since inception, I hate the idea of making people commute for free. But one thing I've struggled with since growing to a size where the number of employees is more than I can keep mental track of is measuring individual performance and success. Can anyone share any resources on how to handle that? What sort of metrics can one use to realistically measure the performance of a developer or…

In addition to what others have said my advice would be to shift focus from individuals (component-level) to teams and the broader organization (system-level).

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#129

Post by luffapi »

PeterisP wrote: post #112
luffapi wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can’t afford to pay for good developers, then you shouldn’t expect good software to be written quickly. That’s something only good developers can accomplish. I think what you want is not possible. More process, monitoring… is only going to slow down your development. I also think if a developer manager is going to be non-technical that they should be able to demonstrate extraordinary developer relation skills.…

If you require good developers and managers with " extraordinary developer relation skills", and do manage to hire them out of wherever they worked before and fire all that don't satisfy that requirement, where do all the average developers and average managers work? Picking out only the best people is something that a particular company can choose to do, but it can't be a recommendation for the whole industry - what…

I would argue that software is too complex to be created by non-experts. This is why so much of the software ever created is garbage. There is no magic wand or process that will ever turn an average team into a unit that can produce great software.

The real answer of course is to pay more to hire better developers. You may even need to pay “hazard pay” if your software is boring enough.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#130

Post by jfrunyon »

lastofthemojito wrote: post #12

I think a lot of the responses to the straw man's questions are reasonable and thoughtful. But I think this sentiment: >I don't want to change the way I work, I just want people to join me in the office. My kids are driving me crazy. Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I miss my office friends. Deserves more respect. There are lot of types of people out there, and it seems like at least some of them are energized by being…

But the people who work poorly when others are regularly distracting them with office chit-chat don't deserve respect?

I can guess which type of person you are...

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