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We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

blog.davidtate.org

41–50 of 226 posts

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#41
post #32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are you joining the meeting to begin with? At companies that misuse meetings, most meetings are not optional to attend. Of course you could say "Well just don't go", but some people don't like getting fired over things like this. > Just decline like a grown-up and get some actual work done What a condescending way to communicate.

There is also the old adage that showing up is half the battle. Even if the company isn't in the habit of misusing meetings, showing up to meetings is important for establishing relationships with different people and departments. It sucks, but people are still social creatures, and meeting and talking to people face to face can have a strong lasting impression then a well written email.

Yeah, I think the above comment's thinking is pretty unproductive. If you "just" skip all of the meetings you don't personally find value in, you're depriving everyone in those meetings any nuggets of value _you_ could add. You'll be quickly labeled a loner/difficult team member/etc. Nobody wins if you "just" skip all the things you don't want to do.

Also it's worth noting that the gripe wasn't about meetings, but about meetings that don't translate well to remote, which I think is a totally different class of problem than attendance and meeting misuse. If those meetings added value when they were in-person, totally skipping them is a big mistake. The "work" so to speak is adapting meetings that added value in person, to continue to add value while done remotely. This obviously isn't just "Use the exact same format, but have it via Zoom", but more thought needs to go into it I think.

Or just the general acceptance that for some people, some things will just never be good unless they're in person.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#42
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one, I just don't get at all. If you have nothing to contribute to a meeting, and nothing to gain from listening, why are you joining the meeting to begin with? Just decline like a grown-up and get some actual work done. It doesn't do anyone any good to have you there on mute with the volume turned down, getting actual work done in the background. Nobody is going to notice you're gone, and if they do, who cares?…

> why are you joining the meeting to begin with? At companies that misuse meetings, most meetings are not optional to attend. Of course you could say "Well just don't go", but some people don't like getting fired over things like this. > Just decline like a grown-up and get some actual work done What a condescending way to communicate.

Delivering completed work seems a clear form of communication to me. It has the added benefit of being hard to argue with.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#44
post #5

I've run my company remotely since inception, I hate the idea of making people commute for free. But one thing I've struggled with since growing to a size where the number of employees is more than I can keep mental track of is measuring individual performance and success. Can anyone share any resources on how to handle that? What sort of metrics can one use to realistically measure the performance of a developer or…

Do they deliver what is expected of them? What happens if you ask for more (as a test to see if they're slacking) over a period of weeks?

I'd be willing to flex a little and work a little longer to get more done short term for a cause, but if that became the new norm then I've just taken a pay cut and that's not an ok approach to it. A manager can always keep asking for more. That sounds like greed and costly employee turnover.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#45
I'm pretty sure if this was a comment on HN it wouldn't meet the guideline standards, one snarky comment after another, "Stupid Reasons", "Sounds like you hire clowns".... The only reason this flies is that at this moment in time, it is the popular opinion. There is absolutely no empathy for any dissent for any reason and if you can't acknowledge the validity of any tradeoffs, I can't take you seriously. If this level of spin is necessary for getting your point across, you might want to reconsider your whole viewpoint.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#46

I think a lot of the responses to the straw man's questions are reasonable and thoughtful. But I think this sentiment: >I don't want to change the way I work, I just want people to join me in the office. My kids are driving me crazy. Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I miss my office friends. Deserves more respect. There are lot of types of people out there, and it seems like at least some of them are energized by being…

As somebody who finds social engagement with a task or knowledge domain pretty pleasant (and one way of reinforcing productivity), I do respect this.

Up to the point where it becomes "I don't want to change the way I work, so everyone has to join me in the office."

Lots of organization big enough to feel like they need a uniform policy are probably also big enough to find mutually accommodating and perhaps even complementary subgroups within the org.

Assuming they want to do the work rather than just standardizing on everyone on-site, open floor plans (except management, of course), sun-at-noonday overhead high-blue fluorescent lighting, etc etc.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#47

I think a lot of the responses to the straw man's questions are reasonable and thoughtful. But I think this sentiment: >I don't want to change the way I work, I just want people to join me in the office. My kids are driving me crazy. Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I miss my office friends. Deserves more respect. There are lot of types of people out there, and it seems like at least some of them are energized by being…

>I don't want to change the way I work I understand. > I just want people to join me in the office. Not cool, don’t make me change my lifestyle. > My kids are driving me crazy. I understand. > Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I understand. > I miss my office friends. I understand.

> > I just want people to join me in the office.

> Not cool, don’t make me change my lifestyle.

Having everyone work at home also changes my lifestyle. There's no way to make everyone happy.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#48

> I can't imagine another day of long Zoom meetings. The pandemic really reinforced to me that so many of these are pointless, at least for many participants. I have played games with co-workers, gone to sleep, done freelance work, had lunch (away from my desk), and all manner of other things through pretty much every meeting over 1 hour that I have had this pandemic. Especially the ceremonies like retro (exercise in…

I agree a lot with your comment. No amount of planning or estimates will ever change that a feature will be done when it's done. My previous job had about a 4th of the total work week dedicated to meetings. As someone with ADHD, this was very difficult for me. What made matters worse is that they were sometimes spread out and I could lose an entire day of productivity and I was just unable to work when my meds ran ou…

Especially when I am just seeing the feature request for the first time and it is an adjustment to some existing thing I did not code.

We had a project a few months back where we used tech nobody on the team had used before. Had a fancy Gantt chart of where the schedule would be. It was shot to hell by day 3 and we spent hours trying to figure it out and gave up as it was never accurate.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#49
post #9

People are not homogenous, and that includes both managers and employees. I’ve been working remote for the majority of 2.5 years now and I’m okay with it but it’s not great. Some coworkers absolutely lost empathy when they stopped seeing other people in person and I’m sure managing them is a struggle and the transition there has been awkward to say the least. Some are seemingly more productive but it’s not clear to b…

I hope This is where it ends up. Not in some "One size fits all" solution, but management doing it's job and looking at the individual output of the contributors and asking what they prefer. Ostensibly, this is why our work places is stacked so tightly with middle management, in order to use "micro-management" not as a big brother hammer, but as a tool to help makers produce better and more comfortably. Doubtful, but one can hope.

EDIT: Typo

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#50

I have a ridiculous sounding but very important to me reason for my preference to work at home: bowel movements. I worked with a small team in a small office. Everybody is typically at their desk in silence with the occasional manager or sales person on the phone. At predictable intervals throughout the day, someone will get up and be gone extra long. You know, and everybody else knows, they've gone for a number 2. O…

Yeah no joke. I have IBS and I’m self conscious in the same way. It just adds a lot of unpleasant stress to my life over something so dumb.

Not to mention I’ve worked in places with two bathrooms total for like 300+ males lol. Always a pleasure to be standing in line after lunch.

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