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Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

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Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#441

Post by franciscop »

MarkSweep wrote: post #309
franciscop wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with your comment overall, but as someone who lives in Japan I'd like to point out that specifically "people who fill in the holes in roads" is a running joke in Japan since small street constructions always seem way over-staffed. It's amazing because they do finish a lot faster than in western countries, but you can definitely remove 20% of the people in street-level construction and would see little d…

Some notably low-staffed places in Japan are Yoshinoya and Sukiyaki (beef bowel fast food, often 24/7). It seems there usually just one person working there at a time.

By low-staffed, do you mean that you had to wait long time to get your order? These places are highly automated so they don't need as many staff, sure there's few people working there but usually more than enough for serving the orders that come through in just few minutes.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#442

Post by franciscop »

asah wrote: post #286
franciscop wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with your comment overall, but as someone who lives in Japan I'd like to point out that specifically "people who fill in the holes in roads" is a running joke in Japan since small street constructions always seem way over-staffed. It's amazing because they do finish a lot faster than in western countries, but you can definitely remove 20% of the people in street-level construction and would see little d…

Um, actually construction appears to lay people as "overstaffed" due to safety, breaks, inspections and synchronization of people, tools and materials. https://qr.ae/pGFloE

Yes, I understand some people that seem to not be doing much are actually safety people, or taking a normal break, but in the case of Japan it's quite extreme and that's why I pointed it out.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#443

Post by franciscop »

Aeolun wrote: post #324
franciscop wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's what the market demands in the end of the day and why I don't understand Japan too much (yet). If a company hires 4 people just for road signaling, and another 0, I'd hire the second one since it's going to be cheaper. That's why I believe these market forces push to at-capacity, because if someone has spare capacity or a lot of profit another company is going to come in at a lower margin and win the market. Yes…

> I'd hire the second one since it's going to be cheaper. You would. But the guy doing the hiring is just giving the job to his drinking buddy, sure that the favor will come back in some way or the other. There’s also the social factor to consider. These extra people could be superfluous, but if they’re not there everyone walking past will condemn that construction site as being unsafe.

Definitely not (except for the most egregious cases), long-term construction sites in Japan are already fully covered by white panels that don't even let you see inside and short-term ones have at least two barriers and lots of signals. While them not being there does not mark "dangerous", I do think them being there could mark them as "extra-safe".

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#444

Post by selectodude »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #403
speedgoose wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people need spare time to be happy, productive, not burn out. And as a company or society, you don't want to encourage people to work too hard for money because most people are stupid and will actually work too hard for money, and not be happy, become less productive, and burnout. That's how it works in Europe. It's common that a boss will ask an employee to work less, because the amount of time they work is not…

Forcing employees to take a holiday is often done purely out of the company's self-interest, as accrued leave is a liability on the books.

Also, at least in finance, they force you to take a couple weeks off once in awhile to make sure you're not up to anything illegal.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#445

Post by franciscop »

nsonha wrote: post #391
ehnto wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the answer to that sorry, you're right to point it out though. Perhaps there is actually some prior court case that defined a liability to make those individuals necessary to be compliant. In Australia we certainly don't have those people, construction companies just use a few signs, some cones and barricades and that's all that is required to be compliant. If someone falls in the hole they shouldn't hav…

We definitely do, and I'm not against having extra people when it comes to safety. Simply putting on some signs is not enough, what about children?

How many people? The more people you put (let's say fixing a pothole) the safer it is. Would you put 1 extra? 10? 100? 1000? At what point do you stop?

There's absolutely a limit where adding another person only adds marginal safety. For instance, children who don't know they should not jump to jump a barrier and then go into a pothole should not be allowed alone on the streets. We are not talking about a random hole in the street, these things are already heavily warded in Japan with barriers and signs AND on top of it there's also workers AND on top of it the mentioned security guards. My argument is, many or all of these security guards are not needed.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#446

Post by dopidopHN »

jstummbillig wrote: post #225
dopidopHN wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I would be willing to reduce my yearly salary for 2 or 3 weeks of extra time. Should not be that hard. It’s worth more than the proportional time I would take off. It’s very valuable to me. Like 5k / week would be a good price tag. I have no debt and more stuff than I need. Now let’s me enjoy life while I still can ( and keep working on that job that I actually enjoy ) I’m not sure to understand about the n…

The crux here is, of course, that one week of your time is a lot more valuable than 5k to your employer if they pay you 3.7k per week, and probably a lot more than you would be willing to part with or find reasonable (think 20k+ a week) It's a pretty infuriating setup. From the employers perspective, the amount of money you lose by having someone not work is so obscene, so quickly, that you have to fight your monkey…

I would love to understand that better to negotiate my next job better on that specific issue.

There is something that make me think something is fishy in that approach : why are more and more places switch to unlimited PTO if it’s that costly to give folks time off?

I had unlimited PTO a couple of times, it can sucks ( pressure NOT to take any PTO for the company sake ) Or he just fine.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#447

Post by franciscop »

ratww wrote: post #365
franciscop wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with your comment overall, but as someone who lives in Japan I'd like to point out that specifically "people who fill in the holes in roads" is a running joke in Japan since small street constructions always seem way over-staffed. It's amazing because they do finish a lot faster than in western countries, but you can definitely remove 20% of the people in street-level construction and would see little d…

> It's amazing because they do finish a lot faster than in western countries, but you can definitely remove 20% of the people in street-level construction and would see little difference. Maybe the 20% extra people is the reason they always finish a lot faster.

So there's normally 2x-3x people working in construction compared to western countries. I'm saying 20% of those workhours are not needed, but that'd still leave quite a lot more workers there compared to western countries and why they finish early. An example is that they normally work around the clock (24/7, but fairly quietly at night).

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#448

Post by GhostVII »

paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

I feel like I generally am reasonably productive for 40 hours. Of course I'm not constantly super focused, but if I were to work fewer hours I would get less done. Every once in a while you have a meeting that isn't totally necessary, but reducing working hours wouldn't get rid of those.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#449

Post by kwere »

formatjam wrote: post #201
paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

meanwhile, China is doing 996 - 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week. Obviously people hated it. But it is happening and no wonder China tech is catching up fast / winning in some areas already.

or maybe they are faking their gdp numbers with reckless real estate ponzi schemes

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#450

Post by kwere »

jdshaffer wrote: post #319

And yet most kids here (Japan) go to school nearly every day -- some classes on alternating Saturdays and have mandatory "club activities" nearly EVERY day including Saturdays and Sundays. Seems a bit of a mixed message going on...

japanese collectivism
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