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Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

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Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#51

Post by ykevinator3 »

Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

Agreed but paying an exec $1 in compensation salary and $100m in stock should also be illegal.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#52

Post by ykevinator3 »

nickpp wrote: post #27
Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

During COVID governments spent and spent. Now the check must be paid. By us, as always. Since income is already taxed at about 50% pretty much everywhere in the developed world, it is time to tax the existing wealth. These articles are meant to prepare the public for it. They influence but also measure the public support for a wealth tax. It could be an all wealth or only a unrealized capital gains tax, similar to pr…

Or it's time to cut government payroll by 50%, shouldn't we at least explore this ?

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#53

Post by jasode »

germinalphrase wrote: post #21
Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

“ It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell.” Unless, of course, we’re talking about the only meaningful asset an average person might own -their house- then we tax its assessed value every year.

>-their house- then we tax its assessed value every year.

It depends on how the property tax is implemented. Is California's property tax with Proposition 13 a true "wealth tax" that people mentally think of in this thread?

Here's an example of a property in Silicon Valley being assessed at $146k but the real market value was $3+ million. The assessed value wasn't readjusted to the higher market value until it was sold in 2016: https://imgur.com/a/0OvqADN

The surveys I saw say majority of Californians (~64%) favor Proposition 13 and it's politically unpopular to repeal.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#54

Post by itsoktocry »

Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

>I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings.

Since most of the population has absolutely nothing saved, capital gains taxes on their index funds are completely irrelevant.

I agree that having normal people paying cap gains on their savings is pretty ugly. However, there's some middle ground between that and people like Elon Musk paying themselves in shares, borrowing against them to live lavishly, and paying no income tax.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#55

Post by iamacyborg »

mprev wrote: post #38
nickpp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During COVID governments spent and spent. Now the check must be paid. By us, as always. Since income is already taxed at about 50% pretty much everywhere in the developed world, it is time to tax the existing wealth. These articles are meant to prepare the public for it. They influence but also measure the public support for a wealth tax. It could be an all wealth or only a unrealized capital gains tax, similar to pr…

Are you suggesting that governments are colluding with journalists to deliver a particular narrative? Or are you saying that journalists and their editors believe there's a need for wealth taxes and so they're pushing that line?

It's pretty clear that the British government over the last 12+ months have been doing just this with leaking Covid related announcements to the press prior to them being official announced.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#56

Post by nickpp »

ykevinator3 wrote: post #52
nickpp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During COVID governments spent and spent. Now the check must be paid. By us, as always. Since income is already taxed at about 50% pretty much everywhere in the developed world, it is time to tax the existing wealth. These articles are meant to prepare the public for it. They influence but also measure the public support for a wealth tax. It could be an all wealth or only a unrealized capital gains tax, similar to pr…

Or it's time to cut government payroll by 50%, shouldn't we at least explore this ?

Definitely. But considering that our only way to influence the government is by voting, I guess we can only vote politicians proposing a reduction in size and cost of the government. Sadly, not many like that left these days, as it simply isn't in their own interest.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#57

Post by dagw »

ykevinator3 wrote: post #51
Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

Agreed but paying an exec $1 in compensation salary and $100m in stock should also be illegal.

It shouldn't be illegal, it just be taxed at a reasonable level making it more equivalent to getting the same salary in cash.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#58

Post by QuixoticQuibit »

nickpp wrote: post #39
QuixoticQuibit wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recently proposed wealth taxes (e.g., Elizabeth Warren’s proposal) that work the way you’ve described would only start on wealth above $50 million. So your framing of such a tax as a way to steal from your working-class retirement funds is incredibly disingenuous. Unless, of course, you have 8+ figures of wealth. In which case I hope one day you’re made to pay your fair share to society.

Once a new tax is imposed, its limits and brackets are probably the easiest things to change about it. Moreover, if they aren’t inflation-adjusted, the Fed will make sure we’ll all get there pretty soon, just by printing money like they are doing these days. Anybody who has any legally earned wealth has already paid his fair share to the society by simply creating the corresponding value. Usually value creators get a…

So Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk (and other stupidly rich executives) created hundreds of billions of dollars of value themselves?

Of course not. They got their through exploitation. Any profit that a business has is value not being paid back to the actual workers who created the value of the company through their labor.

Nobody has ever worked for $100 billion. Or $1 billion. Or $100 million.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#59

Post by japanuspus »

Aqueous wrote: post #24
germinalphrase wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell.” Unless, of course, we’re talking about the only meaningful asset an average person might own -their house- then we tax its assessed value every year.

Fair enough - however, what would the equivalent of this look like for invested assets? We are basically forced to sell to cover every year to pay taxes on accrued value?

Eh - yes? What would be the problem with this?

On a practical level, if this was implemented, I am sure the market would quickly create funds that payed out at exactly the right level to fund this. Here in Denmark, ETF's are always taxed this way and any losses can be carried forward.

The one area where this can get problematic is things like a a big family business that is not providing enough profit to pay the tax. Such a business would end up getting liquidated, which makes sense from a free market perspective, but would make for some great "taxman killed family business"-headlines.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#60

Post by hammock »

Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

>I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently.

These articles are all based on one (exciting, if you're a data journalist) source - the tax returns that the IRS leaked to ProPublica. The leak may probably be part of an effort on the part of the US government to spin up narrative preparing the public for an increase in taxes.

More about coming taxes: https://denvergazette.com/wex/despite-campaign-promises-60-c...

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