Yeah, or you can avoid all that by going to startups.
And do a lot more work for way less money? Your work will have more impact, that's for sure. But at some point you'll have a higher-level realization that you're still working in a capitalist hellhole and you're not being fairly compensated for the risk compared to the VCs or the founders. If I was going to work in a startup or FAANG from 22-30, I'd pick FAANG for the guaranteed million dollars in the bank. The only…
And given what kinds of products and services the vast majority of startups out there provide, even "impact" is questionable.
Yeah, or you can avoid all that by going to startups.
Working 60hr/week for a startup is completely illogical. It's the sort of thing you only do drunk on kool-aid.
I would say the opposite - the only job I can imagine (outside of the first two years of investment banking) working 60+ hours/week would be a startup - where each and every hour in those first 2-3 years can make the difference between building a Billion dollar company or just getting left behind.
I think it makes sense to have people available for regular hours, just so that if I ask someone a question I can expect a response today-ish. But, I agree that a lot of meetings should be emails, teambuilding events are usually poorly done, and procrastination is hard to avoid when you've got access to the internet. Minor nitpick: Is an hour long lunch really that bad?
I think the point is not that there’s something wrong with hour long lunches, but that people have to find ways to fill up their day if they’re expected to be “at work” for 8 hours a day and can only be productive for a fraction of that. As a “productive” software engineer, in the sense that I have gotten positive feedback in my career and never had a problem “getting enough done” to satisfy my superiors, it took me…
I learn lots of valuable stuff from hn. Its onepadt slacking, one part continuous learning
Tangential, but how many of us need a dedicated work time period at all? I have a 15 minute standup every day, an hour long 1 on 1 once every two weeks, and the occasional meeting where I am genuinely needed and maybe 3 hours talking to another developer. I would love to convert my job into a purely objectives driven thing with the only requirement being that I am online/in the office for those specific 5 or so hours…
That’s basically my life and it’s fantastic. I work 12 timezones away from my colleagues. Get real work done while they are asleep, stay up for occasional meetings, scheduled in advance.
I usually take two tickets at once, so if I get stuck and need help, I can switch to the other ticket until someone who can help me is awake.
I think it makes sense to have people available for regular hours, just so that if I ask someone a question I can expect a response today-ish. But, I agree that a lot of meetings should be emails, teambuilding events are usually poorly done, and procrastination is hard to avoid when you've got access to the internet. Minor nitpick: Is an hour long lunch really that bad?
Yeah, and hour long lunch is pretty long. Most people I know take less time than that to eat at a restaurant, let alone just grabbing your sandwich from the fridge.
It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…
I work at a company where it is encouraged to use the fitness facilities during work hours. 15 minutes walking to one of the gyms, 5 minutes changing, an hour working out, 10 minutes in the sauna, 10 minute shower, 5 minutes getting dressed, 15 minutes walking back. That is 2 hours of my work day right there ;-)
Name and promote them. They deserve the extra labour supply.
I think more companies should (and probably will consider) 4-day maybe even 3-day workweeks as technology makes us more productive. Especially in industries that require deep thinking, the output doesn't necessarily scale with # of hours a worker puts in, not every hour is the same. I think 10 hours of highly productive work is much better than 40 hours of busy work. Anecdotally, I managed to accumulate almost 300 ho…
> Especially in industries that require deep thinking, the output doesn't necessarily scale with # of hours a worker puts in, not every hour is the same. Its not about the number of days per week, it's also about the frequency of the thinking you put into it. If you do a 4 days break between two work days, I'd be very surprised if you remember anything in detail of your previous work period.
This is part of why I prefer the opposite of the 4-day workweek trend. I typically do some work 6 or 7 days a week, but a workday might be only 2 or 3 hours, on some of those days. I don't feel like a workaholic, and am not doing 60-hour weeks or anything. I average maybe 30-35 hours depending on the week, but those hours are spread over more days. Outside of the occasional "in the zone" hacking session or paper deadline a handful of times a year, there's no way I can work 8 hours in a single day on a regular basis! But working on a problem for a few hours a day in a regular cadence, not long enough each day to get burned out, but frequently enough that I still remember what I'm doing – that I like.
It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…
I work at a company where it is encouraged to use the fitness facilities during work hours. 15 minutes walking to one of the gyms, 5 minutes changing, an hour working out, 10 minutes in the sauna, 10 minute shower, 5 minutes getting dressed, 15 minutes walking back. That is 2 hours of my work day right there ;-)
Very smart company. May I know the name?
For intellectual work like we what we do, the brain doesn't just stop "working". I tend to be able to come up with good solution while driving/working out/taking a walk/drinking tea...
Only at low levels that I see time-at-keyboard important. Now it's all ambiguous/large scale problems that spending time at the keyboard is a very small portion of my time. It's more productive to keep the problems in mind, then let my mind wandering and arrive at the solutions later. After you design/test/run the solutions in your mind, it only takes a small amount of time to write it out (design doc or code).
Many companies would agree if you offered them to work 3 days a week for 60% of your salary. I've done it.
I'm quoting the GP: > Especially in industries that require deep thinking, the output doesn't necessarily scale with # of hours a worker puts in, not every hour is the same. I think 10 hours of highly productive work is much better than 40 hours of busy work. I absolutely agree with this, but I'm skeptical of a model that allows someone to come to work for only 10 hours and have those hours be the productive time. Es…
I so agree with your point but I don’t see this ever happening in a corp type of employment. Maybe in a tightknit smallish company, working alongside likeminded people that could be the norm.