Live data from Hacker News

Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

adamcadre.ac

251–260 of 764 posts

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#251
post #177
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you define "teaching style" to mean things like being in the classroom, but that's not the usual definition. The usual definition is explaining things in different ways. The students around them (who can sit still) would benefit from not being in the same classroom as students who are disruptive, obviously. The disruptive students might benefit from something like shorter classes and time spent outside doing sport…

> The usual definition is explaining things in different ways. By that definition, what you say is true, but I haven’t heard anyone keep the definition that narrow for decades. Other styles for example, can include things like not changing subjects every hour, but rather continuing until the student is ready to change.

> By that definition, what you say is true, but I haven’t heard anyone keep the definition that narrow for decades.

So the issue is that whenever anyone has come up with intervention based on "teaching styles", it has always failed. That is what I mean by "it's not a thing". Here's the APA, in the article "Belief in Learning Styles Myth May Be Detrimental".

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2019/05/learning-sty...

But if we extend the notion of learning styles to "some kids lack self-control" or "some kids have trouble keeping attention", then I think that's pretty obvious and is another symptom of some kids go through puberty at different times and to different levels of intensity, some people have different levels of self-control or time preference than others. That's just life. Then, the recommendation that kids who disrupt classrooms should be removed from the same classroom as kids who don't makes a lot of sense. Kids who can't sit still should be removed from the class in which they have to sit still, and maybe they can do some outdoor activity. Kids who struggle with a subject should be removed and put into a class where the subject is taught more slowly, etc. That allows kids to reach their potential rather than teaching just to the lowest common denominator. A world in which institutions are geared towards excellence rewards the society as a whole -- perhaps the student who struggles with math can do well in a vocational program and do really well in life. While allowing the kid who can do math really learn as much as they can, so we can have a society in which you can get your home renovated by a general contractor and you can have world class chip fabs, whereas right now, for both we need to import foreign labor since our domestic schools produce neither good vocational skills nor good math skills.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We need more teachers and smaller classes." That would cost more, and reading the blog makes me want to send less money to the public schools.

For some reason my comment was downvoted. Does the system portrayed sound like one that is using resources efficiently to do important things? In some respects the school may doing harm, teaching students that they can be late and miss assignments without consequences. In the private sector they would be fired.

Public schools work well throughout the majority of the developed world - the US seems to be a notable exception.

Anand Giridharadas addresses this in his infamous google-talk quite nicely I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_zt3kGW1NM&t=623s (I'm linking this talk on HN way too often, but it just seems perfectly fitting so very often)

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#253
post #8

This is sad. It reads more as though teachers and school employees are doing whatever they can to keep/justify their jobs, but not to improve learning. It is almost as if a teachers first job is self-preservation. If students can’t pass the test, then the test must be made easier, that way more students can pass and the teacher doesn’t look bad.

I would say most teachers pass students so hell doesn't rain down upon them in the form of administrators, parents, and the school district/city itself.

I think this is the defining distinction - if the child is disciplined or fails, who do the parents blame? If they blame the teacher or the system, you’re going to get bad outcomes on average as you’re removing the tools the teachers need.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can ban the sat and grades and still measure for academic rigor It's harder to normalize performance across schools without a standardized test. > those who placed in a state math competition are likely to have higher academic abilities That sounds like a state-run math SAT that would have the same problems. > And allow the wealthy to better position their kids at the detriment of the middle class. The upper mi…

> The most important thing you can to to prepare for the SAT is do lots of practice tests. Oh phooey. I never prepared for the SATs, and nobody I knew did, either. (Back in the 70s.) Wanna know how to do well on the SATs? Pay attention in school to readin, ritin, and rithmetic. As for SAT prep books, I see them all the time in the thrift store for a couple bucks. The notion that only the wealthy have access to them i…

A lot has changed since then, college acceptance rates are plummeting and competition is absolutely cutthroat. I graduated ~10 years ago in an affluent Bay Area neighborhood and basically everyone took at least one SAT class, multiple practice test and many had coaches to help them with the entire admissions process.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"School-choice" is great for optimizing local maximums at the expense of just about everyone else. Public education should focus on the lowest common denominators to maximize education per tax dollar. It's not the smart people with lack of opportunity that drag down society, it's the massive amount of undereducated adults that become dangerously suceptable to manipulation.

If you want to maximize education per tax dollar then you need to separate out the smart kids into their own schools. Benefits of education are not evenly distributed. It is heavily weighted towards the right tail.

Pretending that the outcome for everyone should be college and a degree is part of the problem - admitting that outcomes may be different allows you to create different paths adjusted for abilities (think trade school instead of high school, etc). Forcing everyone into the same mold results in a broken mold.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#256
post #240

One of the most radical beliefs I have is we should get rid of private schools, because it lets the people most capable of forcing change to opt out of an increasingly broken system, and so it doesn't get fixed. Of course I say this as I seriously consider sending my kids to a private school because of articles like this.

You can't do that. Even in countries with hardcore marxist regimes, kids of the elite (the "party members") go to special schools.

I tend to agree. Money find a way.

But let’s me add some counter example for the sake of it.

here is public high school, with « famous »teacher and kids clearly coming from the wealthy élites.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyc%C3%A9e_Henri-IV

The trick is that the selection process is so stringent that you basically have to be :

- a genious in getting excellent grade according to the French system or … - have parents that coach you to get in there.

Here is another similar public high school.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyc%C3%A9e_Louis-le-Grand

Again, I mostly agree with you point. But dépending of the country, a private education can be seen of « bad taste »

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#257
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do we have any data on the correlation between high-school admission criteria and inventing the Covid vaccine or whatever? Caltech requires good grades as criteria for admission. Caltech graduates have a disproportionately high percentage of Nobel prizes. https://www.caltech.edu/about/legacy/awards-and-honors/nobel... BTW, I think the mRNA vaccine technology is worthy of a Nobel Prize. Don't you?

> Caltech requires good grades as criteria for admission. Caltech graduates have a disproportionately high percentage of Nobel prizes. Caltech requires 10-year-old kids to write essays? Again, are we talking about enrolling 10-year-old kids in highschool or are we talking about hiring microbiologists?

8th graders are typically 12-13 years old, not 10 - 10 year olds are typically in the 6th and 7th grade.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And it isn’t about funding: look at the per pupil expenditures in DC or New York, and compare them to Austin suburbs like Leander, or Houston suburbs like the Woodlands Spending per pupil can be a deceiving statistic due to the vastly different needs between poor/middle-class/wealthy students

For people not aware of the geography referenced here: Leander and The Woodlands are both affluent areas outside of the major cities referenced. I would suggest that the students here are doing well due to a combo of the following factors: Smart parents live here, and they have smart kids Rich parents spend less time fretting about paying bills and more time helping kids with homework One (rich) parent works, one sta…

Adding on:

Well educated parents are more likely to have the skills themselves to help with homework and are more likely to put more emphasis on academic performance.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UC schools no longer consider SAT or ACT for admissions or scholarships. https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/admission-requi...

We all know this is because they didn't like it that "too many" Asians were getting in. Remove the objective measures, and it becomes harder to prove that you're racist - even if everybody knows it.

Standardized and objective are not the same thing.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#260
post #66

This is sad. It reads more as though teachers and school employees are doing whatever they can to keep/justify their jobs, but not to improve learning. It is almost as if a teachers first job is self-preservation. If students can’t pass the test, then the test must be made easier, that way more students can pass and the teacher doesn’t look bad.

Let's rephrase this. If you had a choice between: a. doing your job as well as you can, then losing it (and being unemployable forever, quite likely); b. doing it somewhat worse, but keeping it (and hopefully having a chance to help more students). What would you do? Please blame whoever forced this conundrum on teachers. Nonsensical bureaucratic decisions like this are the reason for which I left the profession.

The teachers who choose A mostly have already left for private schools where they have a bit for flexibility at the cost of lower pay.
Post reply on HN