North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering • Hacker News Board

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#161

Post by erikerikson » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

finalis wrote: post #64

erikerikson wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particularly in advertising providing medical advice and what can be said is highly regulated. For good reason too. Intravenous bleach suggested by someone we trusted may have caused some real harm. It would seem reasonable to remove a doctor's license to practice medicine for giving such advice. Of course broad scale communication is different than specific testimony in court, especially from a seasoned practitioner…

I wish providing medical advice was highly regulated across the board. Crisis pregnancy centers certainly aren't: https://columbialawreview.org/content/pregnancy-centers-and-...

I mentioned advertising specifically. I'm not an expert and recognize it gets far more nuanced from there

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#162

Post by brudgers » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #90

brudgers wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is engineering other than expressing an opinion? Engineers are trained to have expert opinions. They are expected to consider all relevant factors. In AEC the relevant factors include compliance with relevant laws and rules such as the building codes and all the documents incorporated by reference. It is a matter of life safety and the regulation of construction is at least as old as the Code of Hammurabi…it pre…

No, an engineer without a Professional Engineer license is not "cutting corners". They most likely just don't do the type of work that requires getting a PE. The article says 80% of engineers are working without a license. From experience, this is especially true for electrical engineering. Someone designing a building's electrical system would have a PE to sign off on plans (or be working under someone with a PE). B…

The person subject to the complaint prepared stormwater calculations and submitted it as evidence in a legal proceeding.

The letter that person received from the board is linked in the article.

It states the person is charged and gives them the opportunity for a written response.

Civil engineering typically requires a PE.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#163

Post by tablespoon » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

lozenge wrote: post #151

tablespoon wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just the concept of “jaywalking” as a punishable offense is revolting to me. It's a required compromise to allow pedestrians and high-speed automobile traffic to coexist. This unfairly-dead comment has a good discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27561530 Get rid of it, and you'll either have more pedestrians getting run over (e.g. some distracted guy on his cell phone accidentially rushing out in front…

I always thought it was my desire to live that keeps me from walking into traffic despite any "distractions", but now I learn from you it was the threat of a $250 fine all along.

> I always thought it was my desire to live that keeps me from walking into traffic despite any "distractions", but now I learn from you it was the threat of a $250 fine all along.

Actually, I don't think it's so much the fine itself but the sense that not crossing at a crosswalk is "wrong." The the laws against the behavior (and the penalties necessary for such a law) are there mainly to create that understanding.

Of course self-preservation is also a factor, but I'd wager the behavior is more effectively inhibited when it's not the only factor.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#164

Post by antiterra » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #34

the_lonely_road wrote: post #20

What a fascinating case. There are so many details in such a short articles that is each worth its own discussion! Let’s start with my personally theory that hopefully won’t color all of the conversation about the individual points. This guy pissed off some people and those people are using their petty power to make his life hell. It’s like the 10’s of thousands of people jaywalking without issue and then the homeles…

What is engineering other than expressing an opinion? Engineers are trained to have expert opinions. They are expected to consider all relevant factors. In AEC the relevant factors include compliance with relevant laws and rules such as the building codes and all the documents incorporated by reference. It is a matter of life safety and the regulation of construction is at least as old as the Code of Hammurabi…it pre…

1. This particular engineer worked legally as an engineer for DuPontt due to an industrial exception and was not required to license. There was no corner cut.

2. There is some precedent implying a free speech concern: https://reason.com/2019/01/02/judge-confirms-that-oregon-eng...

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#165

Post by dantheman » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #146

travisjungroth wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is that good or bad? I’m gonna go with bad.

Do you just fire them and let them go on unemployment? If everything else is held constant, then there's nothing done and more people without money. It's an even greater drain on society, not to mention these people's lives.

You fire them and let them get a job where they can do something beneficial for society. There's more than enough work out there, hell just picking up trash would provide more value than they currently do.

I'd rather have people on welfare than in these bureaucratic jobs that actually hamper progress, because well they need to be 'involved'

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#166

Post by resoluteteeth » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

dasudasu wrote: post #131

squeaky-clean wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the bit where 80% of employed engineers in North Carolina don't have an engineering license, but have an industry exemption from state law? He was legally an engineer for decades up until his retirement. So imagine if 80% of doctors didn't have some sort of license allowing them to speak about their practice. > In fact, like the majority of engineers nationwide, Wayne was not required to get a license si…

His exemption makes his field of practice much more limited than a fully licensed engineer and didn't seem to cover making legal advice in court. Court experts should indeed be held to high standards. At this point, being called an engineer is just semantics. In many other locales, someone not licensed is not even allowed to call themselves that, regardless of their degrees.

> In many other locales, someone not licensed is not even allowed to call themselves that, regardless of their degrees

But as the grandparent comment you responded to explained, he isn't calling himself that, because he declared that he wasn't a licensed engineer. Shouldn't the court be able to decide whether to accept him as an expert witness?

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#167

Post by irrational » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #123

travisjungroth wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst example of this is Oregon has their own version of the FAA. It’s grandfathered in because it was established before the FAA. You pay $12 a year for an Oregon pilot’s registration. And in return for this bureaucracy, society gets... nothing.

Oregon’s gas pumping laws has some hilarious justifications. > “The dangers of crime and slick surfaces described in subsection (3) of this section are enhanced because Oregon’s weather is uniquely adverse, causing wet pavement and reduced visibility” More here: https://medium.com/policy-northwest/the-insanity-of-oregons-... Safety is important but wet pavements are also a hazard when you leave your house or literall…

I live in Oregon, but grew up outside the state so fortunately I do know how to pump my own gas. One thing that has fascinated me is that our gas is no more expensive, and often cheaper, than surrounding states despite providing many jobs. One benefit of this system was shown recently when no truck beds or plastic bags were filled with gasoline.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#168

Post by rdiddly » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #121

Swenrekcah wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the concept of “jaywalking” as a punishable offense is revolting to me.

> Just the concept of “jaywalking” as a punishable offense is revolting to me. It's a required compromise to allow pedestrians and high-speed automobile traffic to coexist. This unfairly-dead comment has a good discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27561530 Get rid of it, and you'll either have more pedestrians getting run over (e.g. some distracted guy on his cell phone accidentially rushing out in front…

"Distracted walking" is pretty well discredited as a deadly scourge to society. Also, walking is travel, and restricting walking already makes travel more inefficient and inconvenient. So I'm gonna go with lowering speed limits.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#169

Post by jimmaswell » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #33

Texas may do a lot of crazy things when it comes to state government, but one thing I think we definitely got right is the Texas Sunset Commission ( https://www.sunset.texas.gov/ ). Basically, all boards set up by the state government are automatically abolished every 10 years I believe unless the state legislature passes a law to continue the board. So every 10 years the Sunset Commission evaluates agencies/boards a…

This is great. I've had this idea myself but for major legislation in general. A checkup on any new federal law first 2 years later, then 4, then every 8, or maybe a provision to allow a longer time after enough successive affirmations. Congress could live with their easy jobs getting a bit harder.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#170

Post by tzs » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #78

fragileone wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

https://oll.libertyfund.org/quote/thomas-jefferson-on-whethe... > The question Whether one generation of men has a right to bind another, seems never to have been started either on this or our side of the water… (But) between society and society, or generation and generation there is no municipal obligation, no umpire but the law of nature. We seem not to have perceived that, by the law of nature, one generation is t…

> I think Thomas Jefferson is a reputable source for my assertion.

You need more than one because the founding of the US was a group effort. Not all ideas pitched by any given founder made it in, and even when one did many of those who voted to include it had a different understanding of what it meant.