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Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

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Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#211

Post by xvector »

Strongly disagree. Vertical space is not negligible. We already have way too many things taking up vertical space:

- menu bar

- tab bar

- URL bar

- bookmarks bar

- scrolling site headers

- dock

Eliminating, combining, or hiding just some of these by default is a huge win for space savings. It's why people have been asking for a combined tab/URL bar for years.

The blended chrome does indeed make websites feel like they take more of your screen.

Overall this change is seriously tempting me to move from Firefox to Safari.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#212

Post by mavhc »

egypturnash wrote: post #143
orangegreen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of how almost any corporate logo redesign works. Company makes a new logo, everyone is outraged by how awful and horrible it is, then we get used to it. The Discord logo redesign was one of those logos that elicited a very odd amount of outrage for what it was. Multiple video essays were made about just how terrible the logo is [0]. It's really not a bad logo at all. It's a minor change. But once you get u…

And the new one appeals to a different market - personally I thought the old one was pretty ugly, especially with how it would shatter into a ton of spinning fragments when it was loading. It said "hello this is a safe space for Gamerz", and I am very much not a Gamerz. Now it doesn't say that. And now I'm less inactive on the various discord chats I've been invited to. Most of which are not really full of Gamerz any…

Interesting, I don't think I've ever cared what a logo meant, just that it was easy to distinguish from all the other apps on my taskbar.

It's currently a light purple circle with a white blob in the middle, I often can't find it

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#213

Post by mavhc »

smoldesu wrote: post #184
defaultname wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every user thinks they're the aggregate "users", though. That their personal opinion and take is universal. For instance the address bar on here is a canonical truth and is the linchpin of the experience. See how every time a browser touches it (e.g. Chrome truncating the address) is met with mobs of the angry. Many users -- including even "power" users -- seldom interact with the address bar. Nor is it verification…

> Every user thinks they're the aggregate "users", though. That their personal opinion and take is universal. Because it is. Ultimately, your comfort is the only thing that matters when you're using a computer (particularly Macs). If something doesn't operate in the way that you want it to, why is that not a valid argument for replacing it?

It's not a valid argument that everyone should bend to your whim, it's possible a valid argument that (a) there should be a load of config options and/or (b) you should be able to edit the source code to make it work how you want.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#214

Post by norman784 »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #103
willyt wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve not tried 15 yet, but I really like the idea of named groups of tabs. I have groups of stuff in windows for things that I’m researching and i hate having to open and look at every minimised window to see if that is the group of tabs I’m looking for as it’s often hard to tell from whatever tab url I left that window at before i minimised to the dock.

In Firefox, I use windows for different categories of subject/use case. I use the Titler extension to label the windows.

Workona works for uses cases like you, the only time that gets annoying is when you are using firefox containers. So I appreciate the new UI (didn't tried it yet) but seems that somehow fits my current workflow.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#215

Post by [deleted] »

jorvi wrote: post #114
defaultname wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every user thinks they're the aggregate "users", though. That their personal opinion and take is universal. For instance the address bar on here is a canonical truth and is the linchpin of the experience. See how every time a browser touches it (e.g. Chrome truncating the address) is met with mobs of the angry. Many users -- including even "power" users -- seldom interact with the address bar. Nor is it verification…

One of the clearest examples of this for me is having the address bar at the bottom on mobile devices. There is pretty much no disadvantage to placing it there yet whenever a browser does that, people get inevitably angry. I hope Apple sticks with it and the other iOS browsers like Brave adopt it. Edit: point proven

[deleted]

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#216

Post by xvector »

aniforprez wrote: post #189
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who really needs an address bar spanning the entire width of their screen? If you run into an URL that long then it's highly unlikely to contain useful information anyway. Or do you regularly notice yourself scanning through 400 characters of query string gibberish and thinking "that information was so useful that I always need all of it on screen"?

You don't. But why use that space to put the tab bar which DOES require the entire width? Chrome's and Firefox's compromise seems good enough where they stuff everything else to the right and left of the address bar except tabs. This Safari change is just awful

Hard disagree. The Safari change is a godsend for someone with a small laptop display. Every bit of space I can reclaim helps.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#217

Post by AlexandrB »

yakubin wrote: post #27
arvinsim wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes no sense to optimize for niche power users over general casual users.

Stop patronizing casual users. Cmd+R isn't rocket science, just like Cmd+C. Casual users aren't monkeys.

Then why not remove ALL the buttons. Stick them in a hamburger menu. And present everyone with a list of keys they must memorize during OS first boot?

This is how far UX discussion has fallen since the early 00s. We went from talking about affordances, discoverability, and "principle of least surprise" to fashion. "I like it to look clean. Less chrome, and let the users eat shortcut keys, hamburger menus, and gestures."

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#218

Post by DangitBobby »

jorvi wrote: post #114
defaultname wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every user thinks they're the aggregate "users", though. That their personal opinion and take is universal. For instance the address bar on here is a canonical truth and is the linchpin of the experience. See how every time a browser touches it (e.g. Chrome truncating the address) is met with mobs of the angry. Many users -- including even "power" users -- seldom interact with the address bar. Nor is it verification…

One of the clearest examples of this for me is having the address bar at the bottom on mobile devices. There is pretty much no disadvantage to placing it there yet whenever a browser does that, people get inevitably angry. I hope Apple sticks with it and the other iOS browsers like Brave adopt it. Edit: point proven

Was this an optional setting? Was it suddenly turned on with the option to turn it off buried in a settings menu than normal users are scared of?

I actually didn't know iOS had this, I only know about FireFox on Android and it asked me if I wanted to opt in before thrusting it upon me. That's a good way to make major UI changes.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#219

Post by xvector »

alanbernstein wrote: post #35

Why do browser updates keep fucking with the basic interface design? None of these changes are ever necessary. If designers need to justify their jobs, fine. They should design the interface layout with modular components that can be entirely customized by the user. IMO no user should ever be forced to use designs that are the product of meaningless fads in the design world.

I would argue that the changes are 'necessary' as they make the browsing experience much nicer, especially on laptops.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#220

Post by xvector »

1_player wrote: post #84
Someone wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“but do not work in reality with real data and real users, those that open 35 tabs” That is close to stating that those that open fewer than 35 tabs aren’t real users and, further between the lines, that those people can be ignored. However I think, but don’t have data to confirm it, that they should be catered for and that “those that open 35 tabs” are a vocal minority.

What? I'm saying there's a ton of people opening a lot of tabs, nowhere in my comment I was disparaging towards them. Please don't make assumptions. I'm just saying their use case has been ruined by this update, a use case that is seldom represented in neat and oversimplified designer mockups.

their use case has not been 'ruined', you can use tab groups
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