Call me crazy, but I’d prefer the tabs as a big stack on the left side.
Absolutely underrated comment! Most websites use only 60% of the available screen width.
You let your web browser use your whole screen width?
Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
151–160 of 374 posts
Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is basically what I tell people when they ask me why I put my start menu and task bar on the left side of the screen.
You don't hide the start menu and task bar?
Hiding it usually works.
Unfortunately on Windows there's this annoying slide-out animation that slows you down. It happens even if you disable UI animation.
On top of that sometimes the bar doesn't show up at all when specific windows are maximized. Which means you need to press the start button to get it out.
At some point one figures "f this shit, just toggle off auto-hide".
I do autohide in macOS on laptops tho.
Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
UI changes are only good if they improve usability. By far most UI changes these days are only done for the sake of looking different and "fresh", UI design has become purely fashion driven. Where's the scientific research and white papers going along with the Safari UI changes which clearly justify point by point why every single change makes sense, all backed by user studies? All I usually see is "emotional bullshi…
S/UI/clothing; your argument suggests the move to add color to fabric doesn’t make sense because it is simply fashion and has aught to do with the interface presented by a shirt. I think the parent comment nails it on subjectivity; the form of a thing is as much a part as its function. The luxury goods industry attests as much.
A functional tool can still look nice, but the function is still more important than the looks, otherwise it's just useless bling (the fashion industry is the perfect example though, they need to sell new stuff each year without actually changing anything important, all they can really do is change pointless details).
Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Colors bleeding into chrome could make the line of death less clear, and therefore put users at risk.
"the line of death"?
the clear separation between trusted outer chrome and untrusted content, so that content cannot fake chrome to malevolent ends (e.g faking a dialog, a SSL lock icon, a URL...)
Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
#155Linked article refers to the changes in Safari as "thoughtless UI", which is a fairly common argument used against changes that people don't like. Against Apple, Microsoft, WinAmp, Reddit, etc. But let's be fair and note that there quite certainly a lot of very proud, considerate, intentional designers and developers who are behind this change. People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in c…
Well when you objectively make a product not only worse to use, but worse to look at, where’s the benefit?
Also, why does it matter how much time, money, brain power they spent on the changes? The only thing that matters is the outcome.
Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
#156This post makes a lot of good points, which I agree with strongly. However: > In other words, what a browser needs is horizontal breathing room, instead we have Apple doing things backwards I disagree with this in general. Which I'm sure is the general opinion of browser developers. We often add extra whitespace to the horizontal margin to assist reading. I think the issue is that we are so used to toolbars on the to…
Then don't put it there in the first place.
Instead, take a clue from tree style tabs and put the tab bar on the left side instead. I'm sure designers with proper buy in from stake holders can make it look less horrible but stay usable.
Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
#157Linked article refers to the changes in Safari as "thoughtless UI", which is a fairly common argument used against changes that people don't like. Against Apple, Microsoft, WinAmp, Reddit, etc. But let's be fair and note that there quite certainly a lot of very proud, considerate, intentional designers and developers who are behind this change. People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in c…
UI changes are only good if they improve usability. By far most UI changes these days are only done for the sake of looking different and "fresh", UI design has become purely fashion driven. Where's the scientific research and white papers going along with the Safari UI changes which clearly justify point by point why every single change makes sense, all backed by user studies? All I usually see is "emotional bullshi…
> UI changes are only good if they improve usability.
This is true only if usability is all you care about.
In the real world people like things with good aesthetics, and like beautiful things, and it’s important for Apple to make things that users like.
If looks didn’t matter every user interface and website would be plain and high-contrast.
Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
#158Linked article refers to the changes in Safari as "thoughtless UI", which is a fairly common argument used against changes that people don't like. Against Apple, Microsoft, WinAmp, Reddit, etc. But let's be fair and note that there quite certainly a lot of very proud, considerate, intentional designers and developers who are behind this change. People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in c…
UI changes are only good if they improve usability. By far most UI changes these days are only done for the sake of looking different and "fresh", UI design has become purely fashion driven. Where's the scientific research and white papers going along with the Safari UI changes which clearly justify point by point why every single change makes sense, all backed by user studies? All I usually see is "emotional bullshi…
> Where's the scientific research and white papers going along with the Safari UI changes which clearly justify point by point why every single change makes sense, all backed by user studies?
Are you being hyperbolic, or is this your actual position? That’s a ridiculously high bar that most organizations could not muster (and there’s no way Apple would release that stuff publicly anyway).
“Emotional bullshit” is so needlessly negative. We’re not machines — we have emotions! If a UI designer can change an interface to please me a little more, that’s a good thing.
Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
#159Linked article refers to the changes in Safari as "thoughtless UI", which is a fairly common argument used against changes that people don't like. Against Apple, Microsoft, WinAmp, Reddit, etc. But let's be fair and note that there quite certainly a lot of very proud, considerate, intentional designers and developers who are behind this change. People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in c…
Multiple people putting several hours of though behind a feature is what we call design by committee. It doesn't matter how much time was spent if the committee is not capable of finding a unified direction to the proposed changes.
Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
One I've learned from grim experience is that most of the time, 1 person with a strong vision and the willingness to fight for it is better than 10 or more people just kinda doing their own thing in their own sandbox. Sure, the former might turn out bad. The latter is almost guaranteed to.
This is kinda like the argument between an authoritative government and a democratic one, the former works great until it doesn't. When it works, the former is more efficient and can get things done much more quickly but when things go wrong it can go horribly more wrong as well because the checks and balances aren't there.
I think it's a matter of stakes. In UI design, while the risk to the business will vary case by case it's almost never as costly as the risk in governing. Committees just aren't great at moving fast, and in UI design moving slow might be more expensive than moving in the wrong direction and learning something.